McLaren MCL33

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PhillipM
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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M840TR wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:37 pm

The Redbull runs higher at the same revs too. If it were just aero the car would gradually end up at a slower speed, not suddenly drop at 300.
Not really, high powered draggy aero cars are all like that, they accelerate quickly then hit a brick wall. It doesn't even get close to the rev limiter through 130R and afterwards.
Nothing to do with gearing, the only thing stopping that is drag and running out of electrical deployment.

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hollus
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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OK, I gathered a bit more data on gearing. It is noisy, often from 2-3 data points.
		   Speeds at 11500 RPM
		   4th	 6th	8th
McLaren (ALO)      175	 242	316
Mercedes (HAM)     186	 256	322
Ferrari (VET)	   180	 248	320
Renault (HUL)	   191	 261	329
RedBull (RIC)		        333
So McLaren is geared shorter. Specially quite a lot shorter than the other Renault teams. Interestingly, only a little bit shorter than Ferrari, which considering the power shortage suggests that the gearing is still within an acceptable range. I don't think Ferrari got it very wrong, and this difference can account for what, 1 tenth a lap?
But, Both Ferrari and Mercedes use a much higher effective rev band, often in the 10500-11750 range, compared to 10300-11500 for Alonso.
Renault seems to be in between, like 10400-11600, and no data for Red Bull. Are their peak powers in different places? They use different fuel suppliers to Renault, don't they?

Summarizing.
McLaren is geared differently, significantly shorter, but not so much that the gears are causing their current place at the back of the grid, IMO. In fact, compared with Ferrari and Mercedes, considering their lower power and higher drag, they might be geared about perfect. The short gearing might be behind their utter inability to overtake, though, by costing extra top speed.
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Jolle
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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hollus wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:50 pm
OK, I gathered a bit more data on gearing. It is noisy, often from 2-3 data points.
		   Speeds at 11500 RPM
		   4th	 6th	8th
McLaren (ALO)      175	 242	316
Mercedes (HAM)     186	 256	322
Ferrari (VET)	   180	 248	320
Renault (HUL)	   191	 261	329
RedBull (RIC)		        333
So McLaren is geared shorter. Specially quite a lot shorter than the other Renault teams. Interestingly, only a little bit shorter than Ferrari, which considering the power shortage suggests that the gearing is still within an acceptable range. I don't think Ferrari got it very wrong, and this difference can account for what, 1 tenth a lap?
But, Both Ferrari and Mercedes use a much higher effective rev band, often in the 10500-11750 range, compared to 10300-11500 for Alonso.
Renault seems to be in between, like 10400-11600, and no data for Red Bull. Are their peak powers in different places? They use different fuel suppliers to Renault, don't they?

Summarizing.
McLaren is geared differently, significantly shorter, but not so much that the gears are causing their current place at the back of the grid, IMO. In fact, compared with Ferrari and Mercedes, considering their lower power and higher drag, they might be geared about perfect. The short gearing might be behind their utter inability to overtake, though, by costing extra top speed.
by definition all PU's peak at 10.500 where the max fuel flow starts, with a very flat power curve after that. More revs just add more friction and so a loss of power

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hollus
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Actually they might peak a bit higher, since to be at 10500 after the upshift they are forced to run, at least, to 11500 before the upshift. Unintuitive as it might seem without extra fuel above 10500. Unless I am wrong, that is.
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diffuser
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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hollus wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:50 pm
OK, I gathered a bit more data on gearing. It is noisy, often from 2-3 data points.
		   Speeds at 11500 RPM
		   4th	 6th	8th
McLaren (ALO)      175	 242	316
Mercedes (HAM)     186	 256	322
Ferrari (VET)	   180	 248	320
Renault (HUL)	   191	 261	329
RedBull (RIC)		        333
So McLaren is geared shorter. Specially quite a lot shorter than the other Renault teams. Interestingly, only a little bit shorter than Ferrari, which considering the power shortage suggests that the gearing is still within an acceptable range. I don't think Ferrari got it very wrong, and this difference can account for what, 1 tenth a lap?
But, Both Ferrari and Mercedes use a much higher effective rev band, often in the 10500-11750 range, compared to 10300-11500 for Alonso.
Renault seems to be in between, like 10400-11600, and no data for Red Bull. Are their peak powers in different places? They use different fuel suppliers to Renault, don't they?

Summarizing.
McLaren is geared differently, significantly shorter, but not so much that the gears are causing their current place at the back of the grid, IMO. In fact, compared with Ferrari and Mercedes, considering their lower power and higher drag, they might be geared about perfect. The short gearing might be behind their utter inability to overtake, though, by costing extra top speed.
I'm sure Merc/Ferrari's power bands vary enough from Renault's to require the differences in ratio. I think it add doubts to them having a draggy chassis .... So I disagree with them being geared perfectly. It's impossible to tell how much further up the grid they would be. Certainly they wouldn't be at RBR level. Maybe sightly ahead of Renault. It's my understanding that they abandoned development on this year's car because of they couldn't resolve the top speed issue this year.

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diffuser
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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F1NAC wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:06 am
charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:13 am
Zak said mclaren have learnt a lot from the practise sessions this year and next years car will have a new air box which will be presumably bigger. Would this allow for smaller sidepod inlets or not?
Hm. Could be but not by much. Inlets for ERS cooling and gerbox oil are small enough. Its more about cooling system inside car.
I'm expecting a HUGE change here. I have been disappointed before. I believe the turbo inter-cooler is in the right sidepod now. I believe he's talking about moving it above the PU. I'm hoping for a move towards RBR size sidepods for next year.

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charliesmithhd
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:36 pm
F1NAC wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:06 am
charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:13 am
Zak said mclaren have learnt a lot from the practise sessions this year and next years car will have a new air box which will be presumably bigger. Would this allow for smaller sidepod inlets or not?
Hm. Could be but not by much. Inlets for ERS cooling and gerbox oil are small enough. Its more about cooling system inside car.
I'm expecting a HUGE change here. I have been disappointed before. I believe the turbo inter-cooler is in the right sidepod now. I believe he's talking about moving it above the PU. I'm hoping for a move towards RBR size sidepods for next year.
I hope so too, McLaren seem to have the most basic sidepod areas now, surely there must be a big change as if the changes were small, they would already be testing out ideas on this car

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charliesmithhd
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Image
-A bit late and unrelated- (photo from spanish gp)
It appears in this photo that the cape doesn't line up very well with the turning vane behind it. Thoughts?

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charliesmithhd
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Image
Unexpected reply. He usually cant comment on these things

M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:13 am
Zak said mclaren have learnt a lot from the practise sessions this year and next years car will have a new air box which will be presumably bigger. Would this allow for smaller sidepod inlets or not?
Can you share the source?

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charliesmithhd
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

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M840TR wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:11 pm
charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:13 am
Zak said mclaren have learnt a lot from the practise sessions this year and next years car will have a new air box which will be presumably bigger. Would this allow for smaller sidepod inlets or not?
Can you share the source?
It was on ted's notebook. Apparently he asked Zak just before the race

M840TR
M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:24 pm
M840TR wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:11 pm
charliesmithhd wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:13 am
Zak said mclaren have learnt a lot from the practise sessions this year and next years car will have a new air box which will be presumably bigger. Would this allow for smaller sidepod inlets or not?
Can you share the source?
It was on ted's notebook. Apparently he asked Zak just before the race
Also showed a nice view of the engine. It's odd that Zak would give away such information though. Still delighted to hear they're making good progress for next year. 2019 can't come soon enough.

Image

GoranF1
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Strangly Alonso said after the race there are updates coming in the next race.
Before the race he said no updates since BCN.
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charliesmithhd
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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GoranF1 wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:38 pm
Strangly Alonso said after the race there are updates coming in the next race.
Before the race he said no updates since BCN.
Ivan confirmed this as well. Probably only tweaks though

M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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GoranF1 wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:38 pm
Strangly Alonso said after the race there are updates coming in the next race.
Before the race he said no updates since BCN.
Probably something that can fit the new regs. Maybe even mechanical.