McLaren MCL33

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
M840TR
M840TR
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

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Edax wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:35 pm
BrunoH wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:04 pm
they always fall into te same mistake. its a medium downforce track.. so hey lets put a high df setup so we can show our chassis is marginal better in the corners than the rest of the field... even though we have the worst straight line speed... This way we are a fraction of a second faster in the esses, but a ton slower in the straights.

trying to mask how horrible the car is by just putting more wing...
I think they have little leeway there. You know from alonso that he doesn’t mind having to throw the car around a bit and he can do so without hurting the tires. At ferrari he was always driving on the limit of downforce.

So I assume that he is doing the same at Mclaren. And I also assume that he has his say in what package goes onto the car.

For stoffel I am not so sure. I expect he prefers a more precise car. But from alonso I think it is safe to say that they cannot take more wing of the car without really getting in trouble.
This theory has floated around for some time but has no authentic basis. The design department dictate how much wing to put on the car. Sure, drivers have a little say, but when they clearly lacked so much straight line speed last 4 years they'd use a skinnier RW which they couldn't because the DF was very inefficient.

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Redragon
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Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 11:23 am

Re: McLaren MCL33

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M840TR wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:50 pm
Edax wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:35 pm
BrunoH wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:04 pm
they always fall into te same mistake. its a medium downforce track.. so hey lets put a high df setup so we can show our chassis is marginal better in the corners than the rest of the field... even though we have the worst straight line speed... This way we are a fraction of a second faster in the esses, but a ton slower in the straights.

trying to mask how horrible the car is by just putting more wing...
I think they have little leeway there. You know from alonso that he doesn’t mind having to throw the car around a bit and he can do so without hurting the tires. At ferrari he was always driving on the limit of downforce.

So I assume that he is doing the same at Mclaren. And I also assume that he has his say in what package goes onto the car.

For stoffel I am not so sure. I expect he prefers a more precise car. But from alonso I think it is safe to say that they cannot take more wing of the car without really getting in trouble.
This theory has floated around for some time but has no authentic basis. The design department dictate how much wing to put on the car. Sure, drivers have a little say, but when they clearly lacked so much straight line speed last 4 years they'd use a skinnier RW which they couldn't because the DF was very inefficient.
I think alonso has shown the last two years that he will drive in any car they throw him from the design department. That he might have more into the feed back because his experience could be but that he is the one saying what it is the design philosophy of the car is none sense.

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charliesmithhd
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:53 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

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Both drivers always say that the car feels great, surely this hints towards the downforce being too high as the car is very stable round the corners

Edax
Edax
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Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:47 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

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Redragon wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:54 pm
M840TR wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:50 pm
Edax wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:35 pm

I think they have little leeway there. You know from alonso that he doesn’t mind having to throw the car around a bit and he can do so without hurting the tires. At ferrari he was always driving on the limit of downforce.

So I assume that he is doing the same at Mclaren. And I also assume that he has his say in what package goes onto the car.

For stoffel I am not so sure. I expect he prefers a more precise car. But from alonso I think it is safe to say that they cannot take more wing of the car without really getting in trouble.
This theory has floated around for some time but has no authentic basis. The design department dictate how much wing to put on the car. Sure, drivers have a little say, but when they clearly lacked so much straight line speed last 4 years they'd use a skinnier RW which they couldn't because the DF was very inefficient.
I think alonso has shown the last two years that he will drive in any car they throw him from the design department. That he might have more into the feed back because his experience could be but that he is the one saying what it is the design philosophy of the car is none sense.
Sure Alonso does not design the car, but there is quite a bit of grey area here. Alonso does dictate the wing trim. If Alonso would continuously would be running the wings against their end stop that would surely trigger a reaction from the design department.

And that is not hypothetical as it has happened in other teams. Ricciardo had this issue a couple years back where he was putting on more front downforce but ran out of clicks. He went back to design department along the line of “look guys I need more front downforce to balance out the rear, I’ve shown you it faster. Please gentlemen, do fix”.

I cannot imagine that a team like Mclaren does not listen to its drivers, and I don’t think this is the case.

But what I really wanted to say is that the problem is not as simple as putting on less wing and they will go faster.

M840TR
M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Wasn't it Goss who said last year "we use this amount of DF because we thought that was the fastest way of going around the track and assumed the power from the engine will come"?

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rscsr
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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charliesmithhd wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:18 pm
Both drivers always say that the car feels great, surely this hints towards the downforce being too high as the car is very stable round the corners
not necessarily too high, but just well balanced.

Del Boy
Del Boy
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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M840TR wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:58 pm
Wasn't it Goss who said last year "we use this amount of DF because we thought that was the fastest way of going around the track and assumed the power from the engine will come"?
I thought Tim hinted recently when talking about last years car, McL had made the diffuser to short and couldn't get it to generate the amount of DF other teams could and they were compensating with higher wing rakes?

M840TR
M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Del Boy wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:33 pm
M840TR wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:58 pm
Wasn't it Goss who said last year "we use this amount of DF because we thought that was the fastest way of going around the track and assumed the power from the engine will come"?
I thought Tim hinted recently when talking about last years car, McL had made the diffuser to short and couldn't get it to generate the amount of DF other teams could and they were compensating with higher wing rakes?
The car's diffuser size is same as others, very restricted by regs. Aero wise it's an evolution from last year.

DarkAlman
DarkAlman
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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M840TR wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:10 pm
Del Boy wrote: ↑
23 Oct 2018, 06:33

M840TR wrote: ↑
22 Oct 2018, 17:58
Wasn't it Goss who said last year "we use this amount of DF because we thought that was the fastest way of going around the track and assumed the power from the engine will come"?

I thought Tim hinted recently when talking about last years car, McL had made the diffuser to short and couldn't get it to generate the amount of DF other teams could and they were compensating with higher wing rakes?

The car's diffuser size is same as others, very restricted by regs. Aero wise it's an evolution from last year.
I'll admit this is pure speculation on my part but given the strange nose, high rake angle, and relatively simple bodywork I suspect they have gone with an aero configuration that tries to generate vortices to seal the floor to optimize generating low-drag downforce. This would have reduced the drag and been an aero answer to not having enough horsepower and having this kind of configuration would have been ideal with an under powered Honda engine. They could then pour on wing and bodywork downforce as the HP improved throughout the season.

I think they took a gamble on the aero that backfired miserably leading to the realization of the management by Spain that the MCL-33 is a dud and nothing can be done to fix it. Better to cut our loses and spend all our time working on the MCL-34 and next years rules changes.

But it didn't work for reasons we don't understand and the design was in part compromised by the last minute switch to the Renault PU. They have alluded to issues with getting the power down on the straights and possibly this configuration is aerodynamically unstable, or more vulnerable to being in aero wake, or generates more drag than they expected or possibly doesn't generate enough low speed downforce. Truth is we don't really know for sure. In concert with a gearbox that was made for the Honda engine and has the wrong gear ratios, and a clever suspension design from last year that got nerfed last minute by a FIA rules change.

Of course what we be interesting to see is how similar or different the MCL-34 is to the 33.

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LuisFeF1
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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M840TR wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:21 pm
LuisFeF1 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:48 pm
New Turning Vanes in Austin:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1905/445 ... f9ce_o.jpg


Three sections (red arrows)
A longitudinal cut in the lower part (green arrow)
Two metal reinforcements to prevent breakage (blue arrows)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1966/447 ... f3df_o.jpg
White arrows: The new nose.

The new turning vanes are an evolution of the turning vanes seen for the first time in France, McLaren never used for the race:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/845/4122 ... fb8d_c.jpg
Did they use the new turning vanes for qualy and race?
Yes. First picture is from the starting grid

Sorry for delay to answer your question
Last edited by LuisFeF1 on Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mclaren111
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Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: McLaren MCL33

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Image

Please send to McLaren so that they can see what proper integration looks like.... :D :mrgreen: :D

M840TR
M840TR
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Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

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mclaren111 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:09 pm
https://imgr2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/F ... 196841.jpg

Please send to McLaren so that they can see what proper integration looks like.... :D :mrgreen: :D
The Mcl33 has very complex and clever packaging, especially given the time they had. So they're not incompetent. It's just bad aero wise and has been changed for the Mcl34.

M840TR
M840TR
372
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

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LuisFeF1 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:09 pm
M840TR wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:21 pm
LuisFeF1 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:48 pm
New Turning Vanes in Austin:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1905/445 ... f9ce_o.jpg


Three sections (red arrows)
A longitudinal cut in the lower part (green arrow)
Two metal reinforcements to prevent breakage (blue arrows)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1966/447 ... f3df_o.jpg
White arrows: The new nose.

The new turning vanes are an evolution of the turning vanes seen for the first time in France, McLaren never used for the race:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/845/4122 ... fb8d_c.jpg
Did they use the new turning vanes for qualy and race?
Yes. First picture is from the starting grid

Sorry for delay to answer your question
Thanks and no worries for the delay.

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Morteza
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: McLaren MCL33

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Via AMuS
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

M840TR
M840TR
372
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

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Engine cover more open for cooling.

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RW slots dropped even though it's a high DF circuit. Back-to-back testing will still probably occur.

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Oil filler cap.

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Finally racing a tea tray extension. Nice to see.

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