McLaren MCL33

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
M840TR
366
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by M840TR » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:27 pm

wesley123 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:55 pm
M840TR wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:40 pm
mclaren111 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:02 am



I'm pretty sure this was on the MCL32 and used for the S-Duct...
Here's the s-duct inlet on the Mcl32. It's underneath the nose, not the monocoque. The Mcl33 does not have an s-duct. This one is for ancillary cooling.

http://www.mostreliablecarbrands.com/wp ... voking.jpg
Why would they want to place cooling slots there? Their size and position makes no sense. It's size is so small, that it would bring no problem to just use the sidepod.
I'm not sure if you're referring to the one on the Mcl32, which is the s-duct inlet and not a cooling duct. This is the cooling duct on the Mcl33 which is quite big and significantly blocks air to the diffuser. The better location would probably be with the main intake atop the engine or the sidepods, like every other car on the grid.

Image

wesley123
220
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by wesley123 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:32 pm

M840TR wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:27 pm
wesley123 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:55 pm
M840TR wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:40 pm


Here's the s-duct inlet on the Mcl32. It's underneath the nose, not the monocoque. The Mcl33 does not have an s-duct. This one is for ancillary cooling.

http://www.mostreliablecarbrands.com/wp ... voking.jpg
Why would they want to place cooling slots there? Their size and position makes no sense. It's size is so small, that it would bring no problem to just use the sidepod.
I'm not sure if you're referring to the one on the Mcl32, which is the s-duct inlet and not a cooling duct. This is the cooling duct on the Mcl33 which is quite big and significantly blocks air to the diffuser. The better location would probably be with the main intake atop the engine or the sidepods, like every other car on the grid.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dc1ZKOsXkAEWhh7.jpg
Since it apparently is an obvious fault in their design, why haven't they done so already? Amd more importantly, why haven't they blocked it off with a filler plate for example?

And why is the intake on the exact same position as the vertical elements that connect to it? Why not 20mm later, for example?
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

M840TR
366
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by M840TR » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:15 pm

wesley123 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:32 pm
M840TR wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:27 pm
wesley123 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:55 pm


Why would they want to place cooling slots there? Their size and position makes no sense. It's size is so small, that it would bring no problem to just use the sidepod.
I'm not sure if you're referring to the one on the Mcl32, which is the s-duct inlet and not a cooling duct. This is the cooling duct on the Mcl33 which is quite big and significantly blocks air to the diffuser. The better location would probably be with the main intake atop the engine or the sidepods, like every other car on the grid.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dc1ZKOsXkAEWhh7.jpg
Since it apparently is an obvious fault in their design, why haven't they done so already? Amd more importantly, why haven't they blocked it off with a filler plate for example?

And why is the intake on the exact same position as the vertical elements that connect to it? Why not 20mm later, for example?
They'll have to do a b-car to changing entire packaging. Not feasible given regs are new next year.
They can't just block a cooling duct...

wesley123
220
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by wesley123 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:41 pm

I'm more interested in why they would place a cooling duct, why it would be so incredibly detrimental to the aerodynamics?

And what also intrigues me is why would this cooling slot be in line with the aerodynamic elements connecting to it? Why not 100mm further back?

This failure of a design has also been present for many years on the red bull, as well as previous McLarens cars.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

JordanMugen
19
User avatar
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by JordanMugen » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:06 am

wesley123 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:41 pm
I'm more interested in why they would place a cooling duct, why it would be so incredibly detrimental to the aerodynamics?
I don't understand. Why do you think that small hole under the nose would be "incredibly detrimental to aerodynamics"?

The duct needs to be placed there as it is for cooling components located under the driver's legs.

"This is the cooling duct on the Mcl33 which is quite big and significantly blocks air to the diffuser. "

I hardly think that tiny little duct "significantly blocks air" to anything! :)

"The better location would probably be with the main intake atop the engine or the sidepods, like every other car on the grid. "

It has to be placed under the nose as it is for cooling components under the driver's legs.

Image

wesley123
220
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by wesley123 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:40 am

JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:06 am
wesley123 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:41 pm
I'm more interested in why they would place a cooling duct, why it would be so incredibly detrimental to the aerodynamics?
I don't understand. Why do you think that small hole under the nose would be "incredibly detrimental to aerodynamics"?

The duct needs to be placed there as it is for cooling components located under the driver's legs.

"This is the cooling duct on the Mcl33 which is quite big and significantly blocks air to the diffuser. "

I hardly think that tiny little duct "significantly blocks air" to anything! :)

"The better location would probably be with the main intake atop the engine or the sidepods, like every other car on the grid. "

It has to be placed under the nose as it is for cooling components under the driver's legs.

http://www.ausmotive.com/F1/2012/Sauber ... way-07.jpg
I fully agree with you. The post you quoted was a reply to the user above, who claimed it was "another blunder by the designers that significantly handicaps the aero performance of the car by blocking air to the diffuser. "
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

M840TR
366
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by M840TR » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:23 pm

JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:06 am
wesley123 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:41 pm
I'm more interested in why they would place a cooling duct, why it would be so incredibly detrimental to the aerodynamics?
I don't understand. Why do you think that small hole under the nose would be "incredibly detrimental to aerodynamics"?

The duct needs to be placed there as it is for cooling components located under the driver's legs.

"This is the cooling duct on the Mcl33 which is quite big and significantly blocks air to the diffuser. "

I hardly think that tiny little duct "significantly blocks air" to anything! :)

"The better location would probably be with the main intake atop the engine or the sidepods, like every other car on the grid. "

It has to be placed under the nose as it is for cooling components under the driver's legs.

http://www.ausmotive.com/F1/2012/Sauber ... way-07.jpg
It's detrimental because it blocks air to the undercut/diffuser. Although it's unclear at this point if it's for driver or battery cooling, even if it is the former, the ideal location would be on top of the monocoque like Mercedes. If you have photos of any other car on the grid with a similar located duct please do share.

trinidefender
316
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:37 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by trinidefender » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:51 pm

M840TR wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:23 pm
JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:06 am
wesley123 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:41 pm
I'm more interested in why they would place a cooling duct, why it would be so incredibly detrimental to the aerodynamics?
I don't understand. Why do you think that small hole under the nose would be "incredibly detrimental to aerodynamics"?

The duct needs to be placed there as it is for cooling components located under the driver's legs.

"This is the cooling duct on the Mcl33 which is quite big and significantly blocks air to the diffuser. "

I hardly think that tiny little duct "significantly blocks air" to anything! :)

"The better location would probably be with the main intake atop the engine or the sidepods, like every other car on the grid. "

It has to be placed under the nose as it is for cooling components under the driver's legs.

http://www.ausmotive.com/F1/2012/Sauber ... way-07.jpg
It's detrimental because it blocks air to the undercut/diffuser. Although it's unclear at this point if it's for driver or battery cooling, even if it is the former, the ideal location would be on top of the monocoque like Mercedes. If you have photos of any other car on the grid with a similar located duct please do share.
Two things.

1. There is a thick boundary layer there of slow moving high pressure air there below the chassis. This is the perfect place to put an inlet. The slow moving boundary layer is almost useless for aerodynamic uses as far as generating downforce.

2. All the other teams including red bull have vents below the chassis for cooling vents.

But ya know, I'm sure you know more than all the aerodynamicists on these teams.

M840TR
366
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by M840TR » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:20 am

trinidefender wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:51 pm
M840TR wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:23 pm
JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:06 am


I don't understand. Why do you think that small hole under the nose would be "incredibly detrimental to aerodynamics"?

The duct needs to be placed there as it is for cooling components located under the driver's legs.

"This is the cooling duct on the Mcl33 which is quite big and significantly blocks air to the diffuser. "

I hardly think that tiny little duct "significantly blocks air" to anything! :)

"The better location would probably be with the main intake atop the engine or the sidepods, like every other car on the grid. "

It has to be placed under the nose as it is for cooling components under the driver's legs.

http://www.ausmotive.com/F1/2012/Sauber ... way-07.jpg
It's detrimental because it blocks air to the undercut/diffuser. Although it's unclear at this point if it's for driver or battery cooling, even if it is the former, the ideal location would be on top of the monocoque like Mercedes. If you have photos of any other car on the grid with a similar located duct please do share.
Two things.

1. There is a thick boundary layer there of slow moving high pressure air there below the chassis. This is the perfect place to put an inlet. The slow moving boundary layer is almost useless for aerodynamic uses as far as generating downforce.

2. All the other teams including red bull have vents below the chassis for cooling vents.

But ya know, I'm sure you know more than all the aerodynamicists on these teams.
Thanks for clarifying.
Although the Redbull ducts are on the sides not underneath. Why do you think is that?

Image

trinidefender
316
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:37 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by trinidefender » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:44 am

M840TR wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:20 am
trinidefender wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:51 pm
M840TR wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:23 pm


It's detrimental because it blocks air to the undercut/diffuser. Although it's unclear at this point if it's for driver or battery cooling, even if it is the former, the ideal location would be on top of the monocoque like Mercedes. If you have photos of any other car on the grid with a similar located duct please do share.
Two things.

1. There is a thick boundary layer there of slow moving high pressure air there below the chassis. This is the perfect place to put an inlet. The slow moving boundary layer is almost useless for aerodynamic uses as far as generating downforce.

2. All the other teams including red bull have vents below the chassis for cooling vents.

But ya know, I'm sure you know more than all the aerodynamicists on these teams.
Thanks for clarifying.
Although the Redbull ducts are on the sides not underneath. Why do you think is that?

https://i.redd.it/9ahy1vkhznq01.jpg
Could be a number of reasons.
- ease of routing the cooling airflow to the parts or driver as necessary
- a localised are of high pressure air (shown for example on the outside and above the turning vanes
- by making them part of the turning vane you minimise the extra bodywork needed for the intake

Also note that they have NACA style intakes right below the top of the nose. Following previous logic this would be the worst place to put them. I myself can't imagine why they would put them there, but then again these aerodynamicists would have done it for a reason.

McLaren also has a different nose with lots of bodywork right in front the ducts. This extra bodywork will increase the boundary layer. A duct can help an aerodynamicist get rid of it.

M840TR
366
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by M840TR » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:21 pm

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via Albert Fabrega

M840TR
366
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by M840TR » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:50 pm

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Suttonimages

M840TR
366
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by M840TR » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:52 pm

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AMuS

M840TR
366
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by M840TR » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:46 pm

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Just_a_fan
490
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by Just_a_fan » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:51 pm

Have they been given special leeway to run a different paint scheme on Alonso's car? I thought there was a requirement for the cars to be the same except for driver's numbers.
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