McLaren MCL33

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
604gtir
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by 604gtir » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:14 pm

Macklaren wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:27 pm
604gtir wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:57 pm
Macklaren wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:11 pm
Still no S-duct?
haven't most ppl figured out that for scrutineering almost all teams put on their old body work ?
Fair point...but seems like a lot of old bodywork to lug all the way to Australia if only for scrutineering. If they want to do back-to-back testing that’s fine
back to back testing and spares , fingers crossed you dont smash up the new car so many times you have to use the old stuff

Mekki
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by Mekki » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:16 pm

Macklaren wrote:Still no S-duct?
anyone thought about the s-duct not being useful with having halo in it‘s potential streamlines?


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PhillipM
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by PhillipM » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:33 pm

Nah, still tidies up the airflow over the nose, if anything it'll be even more useful.

Maritimer
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by Maritimer » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:40 pm

Mekki wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:16 pm
Macklaren wrote:Still no S-duct?
anyone thought about the s-duct not being useful with having halo in it‘s potential streamlines?


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Not it's purpose, the duct helps keep the boundary layer attached over the nose to chassis transition.

ArgyrisB
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by ArgyrisB » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:36 am

Maritimer wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:40 pm
Mekki wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:16 pm
Macklaren wrote:Still no S-duct?
anyone thought about the s-duct not being useful with having halo in it‘s potential streamlines?


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Not it's purpose, the duct helps keep the boundary layer attached over the nose to chassis transition.
I think the purpose of the s duct is to renew the boundary layer below the nose.
As the air travels below the nose the boundary layer thickens, meaning more air losing its energy. So the duct scoops the low energy air and puts it above the nose.

High energy air under the nose to feed the diffuser.
Low energy air above the nose --> no harm done.

Sort of the way wind tunnel trims the boundary layer:

Image

jh199
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by jh199 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:32 am

ArgyrisB wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:36 am
Maritimer wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:40 pm
Mekki wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:16 pm


anyone thought about the s-duct not being useful with having halo in it‘s potential streamlines?


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Not it's purpose, the duct helps keep the boundary layer attached over the nose to chassis transition.
I think the purpose of the s duct is to renew the boundary layer below the nose.
As the air travels below the nose the boundary layer thickens, meaning more air losing its energy. So the duct scoops the low energy air and puts it above the nose.

High energy air under the nose to feed the diffuser.
Low energy air above the nose --> no harm done.

Sort of the way wind tunnel trims the boundary layer:

http://rockets2sprockets.com/wp-content ... mobile.jpg
Doesn't the boundary layer just immediately start to build again? I always thought the main purpose of the S-Duct was to scoop up the air that was wrapping around the nose from the top around to the bottom in hopes of eliminating any higher pressure flow. Also, if it was all about the boundary layer, wouldn't they want to vent the B.L. from the sides of the nose too as this air is really what interacts with the bargeboards?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, just an honest question

Maritimer
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Location: Canada

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by Maritimer » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:46 am

I've only ever seen it explained as how I stated, to keep the air attached over the transition, although I'm no engineer so that could only be partially true.

DiogoBrand
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by DiogoBrand » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:37 am

ArgyrisB wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:36 am
Maritimer wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:40 pm
Mekki wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:16 pm


anyone thought about the s-duct not being useful with having halo in it‘s potential streamlines?


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
Not it's purpose, the duct helps keep the boundary layer attached over the nose to chassis transition.
I think the purpose of the s duct is to renew the boundary layer below the nose.
As the air travels below the nose the boundary layer thickens, meaning more air losing its energy. So the duct scoops the low energy air and puts it above the nose.

High energy air under the nose to feed the diffuser.
Low energy air above the nose --> no harm done.

Sort of the way wind tunnel trims the boundary layer:

http://rockets2sprockets.com/wp-content ... mobile.jpg
If that was the case, I think we'd see more standard solutions for s-duct intakes. What we see are very similar outlets and varied solutions for the intakes, including naca ducts which I believe wouldn't be very efficient to 'renew' the boundary layer.

Morteza
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by Morteza » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:57 am

They have brought two different front wings
Image

Via @AlbertFabrega
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

makecry
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by makecry » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:27 am

Morteza wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:57 am
They have brought two different front wings
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DY3Rx6lVwAAsVGM.jpg

Via @AlbertFabrega
The upper one is the low DF wing. Last year in some races ALO used the lower downforce wing and Stoffel used the higher downforce wing, I can remember Malaysia from the top of my head.

Albert Fabrega also says there will be new brake ducts/sockets and a new diffusor so I guess a new floor. I have a feeling they might have split the upgrade to two-three races because it's not as big of an upgrade as people were expecting(especially since they have been working on it since 2-3 months) unless the floor includes updates to the barge board area which I doubt

godlameroso
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Location: Miami FL

Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by godlameroso » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:38 am

Wouldn't be so sure, the upper wing has a gurney along most of the upper flap, where as the lower wing has a small cutout and less gurney on the upper flap.
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DiogoBrand
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by DiogoBrand » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:24 am

The top wing reminds me of Red Bull's, with the edges being wider rather than the pointier ones on the bottom.

SameSame
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by SameSame » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:44 am

ArgyrisB wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:36 am
Maritimer wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:40 pm
Mekki wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:16 pm


anyone thought about the s-duct not being useful with having halo in it‘s potential streamlines?


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
Not it's purpose, the duct helps keep the boundary layer attached over the nose to chassis transition.
I think the purpose of the s duct is to renew the boundary layer below the nose.
As the air travels below the nose the boundary layer thickens, meaning more air losing its energy. So the duct scoops the low energy air and puts it above the nose.

High energy air under the nose to feed the diffuser.
Low energy air above the nose --> no harm done.

Sort of the way wind tunnel trims the boundary layer:

http://rockets2sprockets.com/wp-content ... mobile.jpg
I think that wind tunnel example is misleading. In a wind tunnel you want to prevent the effects of flow constriction causing a higher mean velocity than intended around the test subject. i.e. as the boundary layer thickens the flow in the "middle" has to increase in velocity due to conservation of mass.

From what I have read the S-duct reenergises the boundary layer over the transition between the point where the nose goes horizontal. A turbulent (i.e. higher energy) boundary layer will stay attached at greater angles compared to a laminar boundary layer. As the flow goes up the nose it loses energy (doubt the boundary layer ever goes laminar) and this could potentially result in separation; which is why they feed it with more energy in order to keep it attached.

An example of another application using this principle is vortex generators on the leading edge of wings with a high angle of attack.

Just my two cents based on what I've read its purpose it.

mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by mclaren111 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:01 am

Image

SomersF1:
For those unfamiliar with the 'S' duct, put simply it takes airflow from the underside of the nose/chassis and ejects on the upper surface of the chassis, attracting the surrounding airflow which may have otherwise detached (owing to the slope angle of the nose/chassis) to reattach (Coanda effect)

Jef Patat
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Re: McLaren MCL33

Post by Jef Patat » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:01 am

That's actually quite correct @SameSame. Pictures and drawings are helpfull sometimes so just to repeat myself: this is what I posted on p37 of this very thread:

...
An S-duct reduces drag by energizing the flow around the step in the nose. This is a good explanation. Be sure to check all three pages:

http://en.f1i.com/magazine/8277-tech-an ... -duct.html