McLaren MCL33

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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Holm86
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Is this car really that draggy? It's hard to believe just looking at it, of all the cars it has the most minimalistic bargeboard area, it has one of the smalles sidepod/air intake openings, it doesnt have all kind of appendages stuck to it.

Is the lack of top speed more related to some internal cooling problems? Not allowing them to run the engine at its fullest? I think it could be the case. And maybe that's why they had to postpone the major update till Spain, because they found out about their cooling problems in pre season testing, and revising the entire cooling package takes time.

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DiogoBrand
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Holm86 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 8:51 am
Is this car really that draggy? It's hard to believe just looking at it, of all the cars it has the most minimalistic bargeboard area, it has one of the smalles sidepod/air intake openings, it doesnt have all kind of appendages stuck to it.

Is the lack of top speed more related to some internal cooling problems? Not allowing them to run the engine at its fullest? I think it could be the case. And maybe that's why they had to postpone the major update till Spain, because they found out about their cooling problems in pre season testing, and revising the entire cooling package takes time.
It was said before: The drag may be caused by internal airflow. But nothing certain so far.

-wkst-
-wkst-
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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It's their rake philiosophy, which makes the car draggy.

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JonoNic
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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-wkst- wrote:It's their rake philiosophy, which makes the car draggy.
Ok. So what are possible solutions to fix drag caused by rake but still keeping the rake? Is there an old thread that answers this?
Always find the gap then use it.

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adrianjordan
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Holm86 wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 8:51 am
Is this car really that draggy? It's hard to believe just looking at it, of all the cars it has the most minimalistic bargeboard area, it has one of the smalles sidepod/air intake openings, it doesnt have all kind of appendages stuck to it.

Is the lack of top speed more related to some internal cooling problems? Not allowing them to run the engine at its fullest? I think it could be the case. And maybe that's why they had to postpone the major update till Spain, because they found out about their cooling problems in pre season testing, and revising the entire cooling package takes time.
Most of the drag that we can't see will likely be coming from internal air flow.

They can improve this as they understand the PU installation more.

I agree that theie external aero doesn't look that draggy.

And we can't just blame it on rake as others do. RBR run lots of rake and had one of the fastest top speeds in Baku with the same Renault PU.
Since I've ordered an electric car, does that mean I should start watching Formula E?

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Thunder
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Some Posts have been moved to the Team Topic. Please keep it about the Car in here.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

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Jackles-UK
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Apparently BBC Sport had access to the car after the race - sounds like some serious damage:

“... most dramatic damage to Alonso's car was to what is called the 'tea-tray' - the part of the floor that sticks out under the drivers legs, and which helps define the airflow under and around the sides of the car.

In the front of this there was a triangular hole, about 30cm by 20cm, as well as significant damage to the leading edge, as if someone had set about it with a powerful hammer. Some of the heavy tungsten ballast that is stored in the floor was missing.

At the back of the car, there was damage along the right-hand side of the floor all the way from the very back of the diffuser - the upward slope at the rear - to forward of the rear wheel.

Two sculpted curves on the right-hand side of the rear diffuser were gone. In front of the rear tyre, two key aerodynamic shapers were missing, too - what McLaren call a fence, a longitudinal curve, and a spat, a sort of vertical, rectangular scoop-shape.

All in all, Boullier, said the damage cost "20 points of downforce, more or less - so half a second a lap".


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43973625

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Jackles-UK wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:29 pm
Apparently BBC Sport had access to the car after the race - sounds like some serious damage:

“... most dramatic damage to Alonso's car was to what is called the 'tea-tray' - the part of the floor that sticks out under the drivers legs, and which helps define the airflow under and around the sides of the car.

In the front of this there was a triangular hole, about 30cm by 20cm, as well as significant damage to the leading edge, as if someone had set about it with a powerful hammer. Some of the heavy tungsten ballast that is stored in the floor was missing.

At the back of the car, there was damage along the right-hand side of the floor all the way from the very back of the diffuser - the upward slope at the rear - to forward of the rear wheel.

Two sculpted curves on the right-hand side of the rear diffuser were gone. In front of the rear tyre, two key aerodynamic shapers were missing, too - what McLaren call a fence, a longitudinal curve, and a spat, a sort of vertical, rectangular scoop-shape.

All in all, Boullier, said the damage cost "20 points of downforce, more or less - so half a second a lap".


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43973625
So... the car was underweight? :P

Zynerji
Zynerji
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Agreed about weight...

The other question is: should McL try running without all of these draggy items that appear to be unnecessary (with Alonso)?

Maybe a day in a full size tunnel instead of straight line testing is in order...

zoroastar
zoroastar
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:45 pm
Agreed about weight...

The other question is: should McL try running without all of these draggy items that appear to be unnecessary (with Alonso)?

Maybe a day in a full size tunnel instead of straight line testing is in order...
baku requires a lot of mechanical grip and less aero. on most tracks the lack of half of the rear diffuser and a large chunk of the tray underneath would affect things a lot more i think. still dont know why alonso had passed vandorne within 5 laps with all that damage though. im sure stoffel isnt feeling that good about it.
more time in a wind tunnel sounds good regardless.

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Andres125sx
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Half a second aero damage.... but less weight. Let´s say that heavy tungsten ballast missing (any idea how heavy it really is anyone?) made the car 2 tenths faster, then there´s only 3 tenths difference

Alonso can be more than 3 tenths faster than Stoffel, specially in race trim

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Thunder
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Just going to quote myself here. Please keep it about the Car itself in this Topic.
Thunder wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 12:04 pm
Some Posts have been moved to the Team Topic. Please keep it about the Car in here.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

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Jackles-UK
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Andres125sx wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:57 am
Half a second aero damage.... but less weight. Let´s say that heavy tungsten ballast missing (any idea how heavy it really is anyone?) made the car 2 tenths faster, then there´s only 3 tenths difference

Alonso can be more than 3 tenths faster than Stoffel, specially in race trim
Tungsten typically has a density of around 20 grams per cubic centimetre. This around 60% heavier than lead which is around 11-12g/cm3 which is, in turn, around 50% heavier than steel at around 7-8g/cm3.

The exact amount they use obviously depends on how much wiggle room they have at the weighbridge - could be just a kilo or two given the cars these days are pretty top-end on weight anyway, so I don’t think it would result in any meaningful reduction in lap time (unlike the reported 20 points of lost downforce!).

Don’t forget as well that not all the ballast is placed in the same area so it’s unlikely that the whole lot will have fallen out; the neutral area of the FW usually contains some ballast too and this will have been replaced during the nose change at the 1st pit stop.

Macklaren
Macklaren
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Jackles-UK wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:48 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:57 am
Half a second aero damage.... but less weight. Let´s say that heavy tungsten ballast missing (any idea how heavy it really is anyone?) made the car 2 tenths faster, then there´s only 3 tenths difference

Alonso can be more than 3 tenths faster than Stoffel, specially in race trim
Tungsten typically has a density of around 20 grams per cubic centimetre. This around 60% heavier than lead which is around 11-12g/cm3 which is, in turn, around 50% heavier than steel at around 7-8g/cm3.

The exact amount they use obviously depends on how much wiggle room they have at the weighbridge - could be just a kilo or two given the cars these days are pretty top-end on weight anyway, so I don’t think it would result in any meaningful reduction in lap time (unlike the reported 20 points of lost downforce!).

Don’t forget as well that not all the ballast is placed in the same area so it’s unlikely that the whole lot will have fallen out; the neutral area of the FW usually contains some ballast too and this will have been replaced during the nose change at the 1st pit stop.
Can the car pass post race scrutineering if it finishes underweight with a chunk of ballast missing?

PhillipM
PhillipM
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Re: McLaren MCL33

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Yes, if it's damage related.