Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:35 am
godlameroso wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:13 pm
The cars ultimately have more potential for downforce, however they'll be stuck with more drag. Engine power will be even more important next year.
What gives you the idea that the cars will be generally more "draggy" next year? The front wings will cover 25mm more of the face of the front tires, thus lowering drag. The rear wing will be higher (giving it more clean air), have a greater wing span and chord(both giving more efficiency) and will probably have a lower angle of attack(much decreased drag). Of course the knock on effects of decreased sealing of the floor could increase drag, but I anticipate lower(or similar) overall drag across the grid. Why do you think otherwise?
The bigger wings have to displace more air, and without flow management like strakes, slots and vortex generators to control turbulence on the wings, they'll be even draggier. No one will be able to run 2018 style Red Bull rear wings because of the 20mm taller DRS flap.

Now they might have similar drag to 2018 through slimming down the body or tidying up areas from last year. Personally I don't think drag will reduce, maybe they get it to a reasonable level.

The front tires are going to be producing more turbulence as well as there are fewer aero appendages to segregate its wake from the rest of the flow structures. Again drag won't decrease, at best they'll claw back some aero efficiency after a few races worth of ideas.
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HPD
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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Fuel use
Not a change in the technical regulations but a change in the sporting regs that may have a knock-on effect on the technical layout of the car. The maximum fuel allowance for the race is rising from 105kg to 110kg, which will entail a slightly larger fuel bladder. Or, not. There’s no obligation for teams to use more fuel, and thus no obligation to design a car with a bigger tank.
https://redbullracing.redbull.com/artic ... -tech-regs
large bladder.. small bladder :-k

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Wouter
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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Formula 1’s front wing rule changes cost Red Bull €15million but it has already recovered a large amount of performance, says the company’s motorsport advisor Dr Helmut Marko.

Marko told Motorsport.com that while the front wing would improve F1’s overtaking prospects, despite performance level “already at the standard” of mid-2018, “we are €15million poorer”.

“We have the same [aerodynamic] data as last summer,” said Marko. “By the time we get to Melbourne we'll probably be better than that.

“[But] there is now a good basis for discussion between Mercedes, Ferrari and us. We agree that regulations must not be determined by technicians.

“As soon as technicians are involved, the costs increase and everything becomes complicated.
Article.

tranquility2k4
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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Wouter wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:57 pm
Formula 1’s front wing rule changes cost Red Bull €15million but it has already recovered a large amount of performance, says the company’s motorsport advisor Dr Helmut Marko.

Marko told Motorsport.com that while the front wing would improve F1’s overtaking prospects, despite performance level “already at the standard” of mid-2018, “we are €15million poorer”.

“We have the same [aerodynamic] data as last summer,” said Marko. “By the time we get to Melbourne we'll probably be better than that.

“[But] there is now a good basis for discussion between Mercedes, Ferrari and us. We agree that regulations must not be determined by technicians.

“As soon as technicians are involved, the costs increase and everything becomes complicated.
Article.
See Marko is essentially trying to make the point that the regulation change was pointless because the teams will be at the same performance level, but what he is overlooking is the leap of performance that would have been made between 2018 - 19 without the regulation change. Even if RB are at the same level as they were last summer, they probably added half a second up until the end of the season and then would have found a second or more in the development of the new car, so in this case, the old reg car would have been 1.5 seconds or more faster, which is a reasonable difference.

I think the other point RB have (incorrectly) tried to make is that if the performance / downforce they get with the new car matches the 2018 one, then overtaking will be no different. They are clearly overlooking the obvious fact that amount of downforce doesn't directly correlate to how easy it is to overtake - clearly a car could produce downforce in a very efficient way that had very little effect on overtaking. Ultimately RB do not like the regulation change because it rules out or goes against some of their key design philosophies, and may well help Merc.

I think Marko's talk is probably smoke and mirrors - either they have an absolute beast of a car and will blow everyone away or this is a non-story in terms of performance.

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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The point is that the frontwing change alone cost a freakin 15 million and that this money is more or less thrown out of the window because, as he says, it will probably not do what it was inteded for -> make following of leading car easier.

The other thing he is pointing is money. Yes it cost RBR 15 million. They can afford it. But look at some of the midfield teams. 15 million are around 10% of their total budget. That's insane!

So, initial target most likely failed as following other cars will not get much better, if at all. Then it is a huge money sink for the smaller teams that are already struggling with budget, and last but not least, it will most likely widen the gap between top teams and midfield, as top teams can afford the money and still concentrate on all the other aspects of the car, but midfielders and backmarkers will fall behind because of lack of resources and lack of money.
Last edited by gandharva on Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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But if the regulation change helps for better racing and draws in bigger crowds ect, then its money well spend.
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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:01 pm
But if the regulation change helps for better racing
So following other cars will not change at all, or at best, the change will be minor, and the gap between top teams and others will most likely increase.

This is what you call better racing? Holy cow...

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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I think there's scope for the grid to be shaken up.
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NathanOlder
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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gandharva wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:06 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:01 pm
But if the regulation change helps for better racing
So following other cars will not change at all, or at best, the change will be minor, and the gap between top teams and others will most likely increase.

This is what you call better racing? Holy cow...
The regulations were changed to help cars follow closer , and following closer WILL make for better racing.

So you have already seen 2019 and can tell me that overtaking will not change at all. Can you tell me who wins the first race as well please Mr Holy Cow.

Better racing for most is more overtaking and closer on track battles. You obviously have a different view. So your better racing is single file no overtaking #-o Holy cow indeed.
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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The regulations were changed to make racing "better". Most people in the sport think they'll make little if any difference.

As for "better racing" - for me it's not about more overtaking. It's about the opportunity to be able to overtake if you're good. It's about being able to set the other guy up, often over several corners (or even laps). Just having lots of overtaking is as boring as having none.
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NathanOlder
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:56 pm
The regulations were changed to make racing "better". Most people in the sport think they'll make little if any difference.

As for "better racing" - for me it's not about more overtaking. It's about the opportunity to be able to overtake if you're good. It's about being able to set the other guy up, often over several corners (or even laps). Just having lots of overtaking is as boring as having none.
Yeah basically what I was saying is the rules were changed to help overtaking. If it works then its money well spend. And then this guy starting saying my idea of better racing is boring no overtaking racing. I have no idea how he got to that assumption.
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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gandharva wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:55 pm
The point is that the frontwing change alone cost a freakin 15 million and that this money is more or less thrown out of the window because, as he says, it will probably not do what it was inteded for -> make following of leading car easier.

The other thing he is pointing is money. Yes it cost RBR 15 million. They can afford it. But look at some of the midfield teams. 15 million are around 10% of their total budget. That's insane!
Did the new front wings mandate that they be made of gold, platinum or unobtainium? No they did not. Even if there was no change in the front wings regs, RBR would not be starting the '19 season with the same front wings that ended '18 with. Marko's claim is pure bunk, rbr was not forced to spend more money, THEY CHOSE TO. Also, the small teams mat also have chosen to spend more money on the new front wing, but that is offset by money they saved by stopping development of the old front wing early. Nothing about the new front wing regs make them inherently more expensive to construct, and RBR were going to redevelop and redesign the entire aero of their car front to back for the new season just like they do every year. RBR probably spent FAR more money in the switchover from Renault to Honda then they "wasted" on designing a the new front wing.

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Wouter
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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The Red Bull Racing RB15 passes the crash test and will make a filming day at Silverstone.
Spanish article

lio007
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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Wouter wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:41 pm
The Red Bull Racing RB15 passes the crash test and will make a filming day at Silverstone.
Spanish article
As I have already posted somewhere else: I can't take this spanish report for granted, because they are quoting a german Interview with Marko (motorsport-magazin com). Maybe it's mistranslated, because in that german article Marko only states that the Team will do the crashtests on Thursday, no word about passing them.

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Wouter
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Re: Red Bull Racing RB15 speculation thread

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lio007 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:47 pm
Wouter wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:41 pm
The Red Bull Racing RB15 passes the crash test and will make a filming day at Silverstone.
Spanish article
As I have already posted somewhere else: I can't take this spanish report for granted, because they are quoting a german Interview with Marko (motorsport-magazin com). Maybe it's mistranslated, because in that german article Marko only states that the Team will do the crashtests on Thursday, no word about passing them.
I assume that the Spanish journalist has seen that the German article is from Wednesday, January 23rd.
It says that tomorrow, so Thursday the 24th is the crash test.
Yesterday evening the 24th, the Spanish article went online

It was also stated in the article that it would depend on the results of the crash test, when would be the film day in Silverstone.

I assume that the Spanish journalist has translated this well.

Anyway, maybe you are right and the journalist has misinterpreted the article. That would be very bad.