Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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SuperCNJ wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:12 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:05 pm
Mercedes will debut their Spec 2 PU in Montreal.

Output is rumored to be at 1,020 horsepower. A significant increase in power for Mercedes.

"Mercedes will debut engine 2 that will be capable of more than 1,020 horsepower, with a significant increase in power, but without affecting the reliability"

- Motorsport (Italy), last paragraph

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... h/4415276/
I always wonder where the journalists get this information and how reliable it is.

Also, any idea how much power Mercedes had before this upgrade and how the Ferrari PU compares?
Somewhere in the Engine Threads there is a post from preseason testing where a journalist using some kind of device that somehow measures horsepower said Ferrari and Mercedes were both at 990 hp. Don't know if it's true though...

-I hope 1020hp is true...at last we can say: Formula 1 engines produce over 1000 hp!! :D =D>
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

marvin78
marvin78
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Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:33 am

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:32 pm
SuperCNJ wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:12 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:05 pm
Mercedes will debut their Spec 2 PU in Montreal.

Output is rumored to be at 1,020 horsepower. A significant increase in power for Mercedes.

"Mercedes will debut engine 2 that will be capable of more than 1,020 horsepower, with a significant increase in power, but without affecting the reliability"

- Motorsport (Italy), last paragraph

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... h/4415276/
I always wonder where the journalists get this information and how reliable it is.

Also, any idea how much power Mercedes had before this upgrade and how the Ferrari PU compares?
Somewhere in the Engine Threads there is a post from preseason testing where a journalist using some kind of device that somehow measures horsepower said Ferrari and Mercedes were both at 990 hp. Don't know if it's true though...

-I hope 1020hp is true...at last we can say: Formula 1 engines produce over 1000 hp!! :D =D>
And why is that important?

KiLLu12258
KiLLu12258
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:55 pm

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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marvin78 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:34 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:32 pm
SuperCNJ wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:12 pm


I always wonder where the journalists get this information and how reliable it is.

Also, any idea how much power Mercedes had before this upgrade and how the Ferrari PU compares?
Somewhere in the Engine Threads there is a post from preseason testing where a journalist using some kind of device that somehow measures horsepower said Ferrari and Mercedes were both at 990 hp. Don't know if it's true though...

-I hope 1020hp is true...at last we can say: Formula 1 engines produce over 1000 hp!! :D =D>
And why is that important?
sounds good :)

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AMG.Tzan
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:35 am
Location: Greece

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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KiLLu12258 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:36 pm
marvin78 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:34 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:32 pm

Somewhere in the Engine Threads there is a post from preseason testing where a journalist using some kind of device that somehow measures horsepower said Ferrari and Mercedes were both at 990 hp. Don't know if it's true though...

-I hope 1020hp is true...at last we can say: Formula 1 engines produce over 1000 hp!! :D =D>
And why is that important?
sounds good :)
Hahaha...that's what i was about to say!! :lol:
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

zibby43
zibby43
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Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post

SuperCNJ wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:12 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:05 pm
Mercedes will debut their Spec 2 PU in Montreal.

Output is rumored to be at 1,020 horsepower. A significant increase in power for Mercedes.

"Mercedes will debut engine 2 that will be capable of more than 1,020 horsepower, with a significant increase in power, but without affecting the reliability"

- Motorsport (Italy), last paragraph

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... h/4415276/
I always wonder where the journalists get this information and how reliable it is.

Also, any idea how much power Mercedes had before this upgrade and how the Ferrari PU compares?
It was reported that there was a phonometric analysis done in Bahrain this year. It's a type of sound analysis that teams use, in conjunction with GPS traces, to analyze PU performance. This type of analysis was even more important before the implementation of GPS.

The analysis estimated peak outputs of 990 horsepower for both Merc and Ferrari in Q3.

One of the more interesting observations from the analysis was that it seemed the Ferrari was able to make better use of the electric power of the MGU-H, whereas the Merc seemed to have a small advantage with respect to the endothermic engine.

The ultimate conclusion of the analysis was that the 2 engines were on par with one another, and that the W10's straightline speed deficit likely comes down to the car's inherent design (draggier) and the fact that Merc were running more wing than Ferrari in Bahrain.

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Big Tea
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:32 pm
SuperCNJ wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:12 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:05 pm
Mercedes will debut their Spec 2 PU in Montreal.

Output is rumored to be at 1,020 horsepower. A significant increase in power for Mercedes.

"Mercedes will debut engine 2 that will be capable of more than 1,020 horsepower, with a significant increase in power, but without affecting the reliability"

- Motorsport (Italy), last paragraph

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... h/4415276/
I always wonder where the journalists get this information and how reliable it is.

Also, any idea how much power Mercedes had before this upgrade and how the Ferrari PU compares?
Somewhere in the Engine Threads there is a post from preseason testing where a journalist using some kind of device that somehow measures horsepower said Ferrari and Mercedes were both at 990 hp. Don't know if it's true though...

-I hope 1020hp is true...at last we can say: Formula 1 engines produce over 1000 hp!! :D =D>
I believe the device used by journalists to measure HP of a F1 engine is the 'wet finger'.
It comes in 2 forms. First it is held in the air and a guess made, or more technical, spill from the glass being carried to someone who claims they know and will tell for a drink.

(yes, I know there are serious journalists out there, but I don't think they are qualified to use this particular equipment)
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

digitalrurouni
digitalrurouni
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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1020 hp or thereabouts with such a restrictive set of rules with regards to fuel flow, and 3 engines per season is a remarkable achievement if you ask me. Do you think under the same regulations more output could be extracted if they change the specifications of the MGU-H and K like more powerful batteries or a bigger hp output out of the electrics?

Jolle
Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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digitalrurouni wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:47 pm
1020 hp or thereabouts with such a restrictive set of rules with regards to fuel flow, and 3 engines per season is a remarkable achievement if you ask me. Do you think under the same regulations more output could be extracted if they change the specifications of the MGU-H and K like more powerful batteries or a bigger hp output out of the electrics?
The size and flow of energy from and to the H is not limited or regulated, only the max turbine speed. If they would increase the K and/or the flow of energy to the K and ES it will of course make the PU more efficient and more powerful.

dans79
dans79
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Location: USA

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:11 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:47 pm
1020 hp or thereabouts with such a restrictive set of rules with regards to fuel flow, and 3 engines per season is a remarkable achievement if you ask me. Do you think under the same regulations more output could be extracted if they change the specifications of the MGU-H and K like more powerful batteries or a bigger hp output out of the electrics?
The size and flow of energy from and to the H is not limited or regulated, only the max turbine speed. If they would increase the K and/or the flow of energy to the K and ES it will of course make the PU more efficient and more powerful.
I agree, and i think it would be cheap. Right now I think all the engine manufactures are all chasing minuscule ICE gains because that's all the rules allow them to do right now.
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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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I've never been one to trumpet "road relevance" of F1 - I don't think it is/should be aimed at road relevance - but having said that, I'd bet Mercedes are learning a lot of stuff that they can apply/adapt to their road vehicle systems.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

erudite450
erudite450
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Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:50 pm

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:18 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:11 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:47 pm
1020 hp or thereabouts with such a restrictive set of rules with regards to fuel flow, and 3 engines per season is a remarkable achievement if you ask me. Do you think under the same regulations more output could be extracted if they change the specifications of the MGU-H and K like more powerful batteries or a bigger hp output out of the electrics?
The size and flow of energy from and to the H is not limited or regulated, only the max turbine speed. If they would increase the K and/or the flow of energy to the K and ES it will of course make the PU more efficient and more powerful.
I agree, and i think it would be cheap. Right now I think all the engine manufactures are all chasing minuscule ICE gains because that's all the rules allow them to do right now.
I'm surprised the manufacturers aren't pushing for more flexibility with the MGU-K and Energy Storage. One would have thought it would aid their R&D for their road cars.

digitalrurouni
digitalrurouni
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Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:50 pm

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:11 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:47 pm
1020 hp or thereabouts with such a restrictive set of rules with regards to fuel flow, and 3 engines per season is a remarkable achievement if you ask me. Do you think under the same regulations more output could be extracted if they change the specifications of the MGU-H and K like more powerful batteries or a bigger hp output out of the electrics?
The size and flow of energy from and to the H is not limited or regulated, only the max turbine speed. If they would increase the K and/or the flow of energy to the K and ES it will of course make the PU more efficient and more powerful.
Thanks for replying. So when you said the max turning speed is regulated you are taking about the MGU-H turbine speed. And the flow of the energy to the K and ES that you are referring to is that the 4 MJ limit?

Wonder why then the regulations are restricting the PU with such numbers if they want to push the green agenda wouldn't they allow more 'recovery' basically than say ICE development?

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Sierra117
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:19 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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digitalrurouni wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:14 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:11 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:47 pm
1020 hp or thereabouts with such a restrictive set of rules with regards to fuel flow, and 3 engines per season is a remarkable achievement if you ask me. Do you think under the same regulations more output could be extracted if they change the specifications of the MGU-H and K like more powerful batteries or a bigger hp output out of the electrics?
The size and flow of energy from and to the H is not limited or regulated, only the max turbine speed. If they would increase the K and/or the flow of energy to the K and ES it will of course make the PU more efficient and more powerful.
Thanks for replying. So when you said the max turning speed is regulated you are taking about the MGU-H turbine speed. And the flow of the energy to the K and ES that you are referring to is that the 4 MJ limit?

Wonder why then the regulations are restricting the PU with such numbers if they want to push the green agenda wouldn't they allow more 'recovery' basically than say ICE development?
I think it's because it's the ingenuity and working around and within the regulations that results in genius solutions that are thr most efficient solutions that then can be applied to the mainstream. Relaxing the constraints and allowing for more input of resources is actually reducing efficiency. Something similar is altitude training where your lungs and overall circulation system adapts to deal with the thinner air and lower oxygen level (for athletes). Just my view.
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Jolle
Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post

digitalrurouni wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:14 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:11 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:47 pm
1020 hp or thereabouts with such a restrictive set of rules with regards to fuel flow, and 3 engines per season is a remarkable achievement if you ask me. Do you think under the same regulations more output could be extracted if they change the specifications of the MGU-H and K like more powerful batteries or a bigger hp output out of the electrics?
The size and flow of energy from and to the H is not limited or regulated, only the max turbine speed. If they would increase the K and/or the flow of energy to the K and ES it will of course make the PU more efficient and more powerful.
Thanks for replying. So when you said the max turning speed is regulated you are taking about the MGU-H turbine speed. And the flow of the energy to the K and ES that you are referring to is that the 4 MJ limit?

Wonder why then the regulations are restricting the PU with such numbers if they want to push the green agenda wouldn't they allow more 'recovery' basically than say ICE development?
Both the ICE as the recovery is more develop working models where for road use the ICE could be scaled down and the ERS scaled up for instance. The actual size doesn’t matter for that. But, if for instance they would half the ICE and quadruple the ERS, you would have strange off throttle recovery and other efficiency tactics that wouldn’t be “racy”, just like the CVT that Williams build in the nineties.

At the moment the current F1 is a perfect proof of concept. A very efficient and reliable turbo engine with no turbo lag.

The 1984 TAG Porsche, unlimited only with the amount of fuel per race 220 liters (around 180 kg I guess?), no boost limits or durability goal of 310 km, has 650 hp during the race.

The turbine speed must not exceed 125.000 rpm by the way and I don’t think the H unit is allowed to be geared.

Longley
Longley
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Image

Do we see here a more tight-fitted engine cover / sidepods?

It looks like you can see the curvatures of the coolers and the exhaust under the shell.