Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

[turbof1]

What in the hell is going on here? Don't know what these vitamins really are, but if you are swallowing them, immediately stop doing it and get back on topic!

[Just_a_fan]

Yo, turbo! It's suuummmmeeeer break, man! Like chill, dude!

[turbof1]

Yo, turbo! It's suuummmmeeeer break, man! Like chill, dude!

Sounds like someone who swallowed those "vitamins".

But seriously guys, we don't know the concept of a summer break here. Lets get back on topic.

[SiLo]

Does it not also mean that you corner faster so apply the brake for a shorter period? (also more moving air)

If a car is slow, then you can break later before a turn. If it comes to the breaking zone with greater speed, then you break early and break harder before you take turn. No driver keeps breaking throughout a corner, it's before the corner entry.

A bit. If your tires are worn, you can put less energy trough them. This means less cornering speed, less power from the PU and less braking.

It means longer braking times, rather than specifically less braking. Being on the brakes for longer, but with less energy is worse than a small high energy braking event.

[digitalrurouni]

So it's been 2 races in since the big upgrade was introduced.

My question is what are the thoughts on the new upgrade package vs what was previously there? Do you guys think that Hamilton would have been able to perform the way he did at the Hungaroring with the previous package? I know Wolff has been quoted saying that the aero load numbers when the car was on track matched exactly what they were supposed to so I would think it's a step forward for sure but just trying to get an idea of the 'delta' between the 2 packages (pre Germany and post Germany).

[zibby43]

So it's been 2 races in since the big upgrade was introduced.

My question is what are the thoughts on the new upgrade package vs what was previously there? Do you guys think that Hamilton would have been able to perform the way he did at the Hungaroring with the previous package? I know Wolff has been quoted saying that the aero load numbers when the car was on track matched exactly what they were supposed to so I would think it's a step forward for sure but just trying to get an idea of the 'delta' between the 2 packages (pre Germany and post Germany).

I think that the upgrade is working as intended. The limited running in practice the past 2 GPs has probably hampered Merc's ability to fine-tune their massive update, particularly when it comes to qualifying. Which makes sense, as you want to focus on your race pace and tire deg in the limited running you do get.

Furthermore, if you go all the way back to preseason testing, it took almost the entirety of the second week of Barcelona testing (that's a lot of running) for Merc to optimize the "B-spec" car that ended up getting tweaked further and raced in Melbourne.

In the meantime, I think Merc have erred on the side of caution when setting up the car, skewing the balance toward race pace and tire life. Of course, the development race will continue, but after the summer break, I expect that Merc will begin to claw all of the expected gains out of the added downforce.

I think they probably got a nice wake-up call from Red Bull in Hungary. Maybe now they'll realize they need to perhaps pay a bit more attention to single-lap pace, but their tire management and grip levels ended up being so much better than Red Bull (despite the fact HAM was running in dirty air), that they might be confident with maintaining that approach going forward.

Only 3 races have been won from pole this year: Bottas in Baku, and Hamilton in both Monaco and France. With the new front wing regulations and tires you can actually push with, it seems race pace is the most important tool this year, and not necessarily one-lap pace.

[strad]

No driver keeps breaking throughout a corner, it's before the corner entry.

Ever heard of trail braking?
I have heard both Lewis and Martin mention it.

Trail braking is an advanced driving technique that allow the driver to control the balance of a vehicle entering a corner.
Most drivers think the brakes are used for just slowing down the car, but more importantly they allow us to control the weight transfer and balance of the car. You must be able to control the balance from rear to front as well as side to side when entering a corner.
By controlling the weight transfer of the vehicle, you alter the balance of grip from tires, rear to front and side to side as you enter a corner. You have the ability to modify the balance of the vehicle by using the brake and throttle properly. This sets you up to get the most tire grip out of each end of your vehicle entering a corner. Four tires working instead of one, by weight transfer control.

[GPR-A]

No driver keeps breaking throughout a corner, it's before the corner entry.

Ever heard of trail braking?
I have heard both Lewis and Martin mention it.

Trail braking is an advanced driving technique that allow the driver to control the balance of a vehicle entering a corner.
Most drivers think the brakes are used for just slowing down the car, but more importantly they allow us to control the weight transfer and balance of the car. You must be able to control the balance from rear to front as well as side to side when entering a corner.
By controlling the weight transfer of the vehicle, you alter the balance of grip from tires, rear to front and side to side as you enter a corner. You have the ability to modify the balance of the vehicle by using the brake and throttle properly. This sets you up to get the most tire grip out of each end of your vehicle entering a corner. Four tires working instead of one, by weight transfer control.

I hope you watch the onboards of F1 drivers that tells you, when a driver is pressing the brakes. Martin is an old man and thank god, F1 has taken leaps in broadcasting and we get to see the onboards, along with graphics that demonstrates the throttle and brake application throughout a lap and not to mention the telemetry details.

[roon]

F1 has taken leaps in broadcasting and we get to see the onboards, along with graphics that demonstrates the throttle and brake application throughout a lap and not to mention the telemetry details.

The broadcast brake display is binary. We dont know how it correlates to pedal force/line pressure/piston pressure.

[digitalrurouni]

So it's been 2 races in since the big upgrade was introduced.

My question is what are the thoughts on the new upgrade package vs what was previously there? Do you guys think that Hamilton would have been able to perform the way he did at the Hungaroring with the previous package? I know Wolff has been quoted saying that the aero load numbers when the car was on track matched exactly what they were supposed to so I would think it's a step forward for sure but just trying to get an idea of the 'delta' between the 2 packages (pre Germany and post Germany).

I think that the upgrade is working as intended. The limited running in practice the past 2 GPs has probably hampered Merc's ability to fine-tune their massive update, particularly when it comes to qualifying. Which makes sense, as you want to focus on your race pace and tire deg in the limited running you do get.

Furthermore, if you go all the way back to preseason testing, it took almost the entirety of the second week of Barcelona testing (that's a lot of running) for Merc to optimize the "B-spec" car that ended up getting tweaked further and raced in Melbourne.

In the meantime, I think Merc have erred on the side of caution when setting up the car, skewing the balance toward race pace and tire life. Of course, the development race will continue, but after the summer break, I expect that Merc will begin to claw all of the expected gains out of the added downforce.

I think they probably got a nice wake-up call from Red Bull in Hungary. Maybe now they'll realize they need to perhaps pay a bit more attention to single-lap pace, but their tire management and grip levels ended up being so much better than Red Bull (despite the fact HAM was running in dirty air), that they might be confident with maintaining that approach going forward.

Only 3 races have been won from pole this year: Bottas in Baku, and Hamilton in both Monaco and France. With the new front wing regulations and tires you can actually push with, it seems race pace is the most important tool this year, and not necessarily one-lap pace.

Thanks for that reply. What you said makes sense and I'm in agreement. It's kind of amazing as I don't recall red bull having a huge update but their performance has been burgeoning very nicely. Seems like PI and chassis marriage and improvements are advancing in leaps and bounds. Love the development war between teams. Would be even better if Ferrari get out of the slump they're in. Renault too! McLaren on the up and up. I know it's too far in the future but I'm hoping 2020 will be an even harder fought season with the rules being stable.

[zibby43]

So it's been 2 races in since the big upgrade was introduced.

My question is what are the thoughts on the new upgrade package vs what was previously there? Do you guys think that Hamilton would have been able to perform the way he did at the Hungaroring with the previous package? I know Wolff has been quoted saying that the aero load numbers when the car was on track matched exactly what they were supposed to so I would think it's a step forward for sure but just trying to get an idea of the 'delta' between the 2 packages (pre Germany and post Germany).

I think that the upgrade is working as intended. The limited running in practice the past 2 GPs has probably hampered Merc's ability to fine-tune their massive update, particularly when it comes to qualifying. Which makes sense, as you want to focus on your race pace and tire deg in the limited running you do get.

Furthermore, if you go all the way back to preseason testing, it took almost the entirety of the second week of Barcelona testing (that's a lot of running) for Merc to optimize the "B-spec" car that ended up getting tweaked further and raced in Melbourne.

In the meantime, I think Merc have erred on the side of caution when setting up the car, skewing the balance toward race pace and tire life. Of course, the development race will continue, but after the summer break, I expect that Merc will begin to claw all of the expected gains out of the added downforce.

I think they probably got a nice wake-up call from Red Bull in Hungary. Maybe now they'll realize they need to perhaps pay a bit more attention to single-lap pace, but their tire management and grip levels ended up being so much better than Red Bull (despite the fact HAM was running in dirty air), that they might be confident with maintaining that approach going forward.

Only 3 races have been won from pole this year: Bottas in Baku, and Hamilton in both Monaco and France. With the new front wing regulations and tires you can actually push with, it seems race pace is the most important tool this year, and not necessarily one-lap pace.

Thanks for that reply. What you said makes sense and I'm in agreement. It's kind of amazing as I don't recall red bull having a huge update but their performance has been burgeoning very nicely. Seems like PI and chassis marriage and improvements are advancing in leaps and bounds. Love the development war between teams. Would be even better if Ferrari get out of the slump they're in. Renault too! McLaren on the up and up. I know it's too far in the future but I'm hoping 2020 will be an even harder fought season with the rules being stable.

You are very welcome. It was a great question. And thank you.

Red Bull had a very important front wing upgrade in Austria that began the process of rapidly unlocking pace through improved feeling in the car. This season, it seems that it is taking teams a few races to understand and fully exploit their upgrades (particularly when they involve changing the front wing or barge boards). The past few races, both Red Bull and Mercedes went through this process of fine-tuning. Red Bull's setup really clicked in Hungary, whereas Mercedes may finally nail the sweet spot for the softer tires with their upgraded package at Spa.

More on the Red Bull front wing upgrade: https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... a/4487653/

[marvin78]

No driver keeps breaking throughout a corner, it's before the corner entry.

Ever heard of trail braking?
I have heard both Lewis and Martin mention it.

Trail braking is an advanced driving technique that allow the driver to control the balance of a vehicle entering a corner.
Most drivers think the brakes are used for just slowing down the car, but more importantly they allow us to control the weight transfer and balance of the car. You must be able to control the balance from rear to front as well as side to side when entering a corner.
By controlling the weight transfer of the vehicle, you alter the balance of grip from tires, rear to front and side to side as you enter a corner. You have the ability to modify the balance of the vehicle by using the brake and throttle properly. This sets you up to get the most tire grip out of each end of your vehicle entering a corner. Four tires working instead of one, by weight transfer control.

I hope you watch the onboards of F1 drivers that tells you, when a driver is pressing the brakes. Martin is an old man and thank god, F1 has taken leaps in broadcasting and we get to see the onboards, along with graphics that demonstrates the throttle and brake application throughout a lap and not to mention the telemetry details.

We had that in the 90s already. For some reason it was taken away for a while. But we had it back then.

[pimpwerx]

Ever heard of trail braking?
I have heard both Lewis and Martin mention it.

I hope you watch the onboards of F1 drivers that tells you, when a driver is pressing the brakes. Martin is an old man and thank god, F1 has taken leaps in broadcasting and we get to see the onboards, along with graphics that demonstrates the throttle and brake application throughout a lap and not to mention the telemetry details.

We had that in the 90s already. For some reason it was taken away for a while. But we had it back then.

When Alonso came into F1, and started challenging Michael with the Renault, there were some interesting videos of their pedal inputs. Alonso's were much more binary than Michael's, who incorporated much more balancing of throttle and brake inputs, as a holdover from past generations. I'm not that certain that pedal inputs are significantly feathered anymore. I think if we got telemetry on screen in full analog form (assuming it's not already), we'd see that modern drivers are much more decisive in their inputs, and we probably wouldn't be able to visually discern the crossover between brake and throttle application, as it might happen in a millisecond.

That's my guess for why the broadcast is the way it is, because there's simply no need, or there is no discernible overlap outside of wet-weather conditions. Just my thoughts, as I remember that video being a real eye-opener, and my first impression that Schumacher's time at the top had finally come to an end.

[digitalrurouni]

A lot of forum members are suggesting that Mercedes shift development to their 2020 car and the 2019 car development is done. With RB and Honda resurgence and with a driver like Max on their side and with the regulations being stable for next year it makes.no sense to me for Mercedes to stop development on the 2019 car. Fail to see why that is even being suggested.

[zibby43]

A lot of forum members are suggesting that Mercedes shift development to their 2020 car and the 2029 car development is done. With RB and Honda resurgence and with a driver like Max on their side and with the regulations being stable for next year it makes.no sense to me for Mercedes to stop development on the 2019 car. Fail to see why that is even being suggested.

Agreed. With stable regulations heading into next year, a lot of the development that Merc do on the 2019 car will be very beneficial for the W11.

Ferrari are in a very different situation, however.