Scuderia Ferrari SF90

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
zibby43
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by zibby43 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:33 pm

Tzk wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:40 pm
The question is if for a given downforce and thus less rear wing df and more rake is actually causing more drag or not. Ferrari may have more df from the diffusor and this less df and drag from the rear wing. They also may run a bit less df that the mercs.

This would result in more straightline speed through: a) a bit more engine power, b) a bit less drag from the rear wing and c) a bit less drag because less total df.

This is what i assume... i just don‘t buy totos explanation.
I mentioned this in another thread, but if the straight-line gap was down to just sheer engine power, rather than wing level, overall setup, etc., I would've expected VET closer to LEC in qualifying (I fully realize VET had just the one Q3 run).

Instead, VET just shaded both Merc drivers in Q3. With a better lap, HAM could've ended up on the front row.

Did we not get to see telemetry overlays comparing HAM to VET in qualifying?

Furthermore, LEC's straight line advantage seemed to translate to the race, whereas HAM's race pace was just as strong (if not stronger, at some points, particularly when HAM went onto the Mediums) as VET's.

f1316
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by f1316 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:57 am

Don’t forget that in pre-season testing we were all talking about the Ferrari plunging under braking and straightening up in a straight line - if this was not working properly (i.e. wrong suspension setup) in Australia but fixed in Bahrain, it would certainly have an impact on straighline speed.

That said, I have no visual observations of this happening in Bahrain, just that, if it were true, it would allow them to have their cake and eat it (high rake in corners, less drag on straights).

FW17
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by FW17 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:10 am






SV has some problem is out of the corners

Out of turn 4 to turn 6 some loss

Out of turn 7 to turn 9 a huge loss;

Both cases not because of a bad exit

Sector 3 maybe he ran over some kerbs too much,

but there is something wrong with the engine

dtro
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by dtro » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:05 pm

NL_Fer wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:51 pm
dtro wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:38 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:12 pm
I though this was an aero thread?

Now again, could the straightline/acceleration performance be caused by the rake or not?
How would increased drag/rake cause increased acceleration?
The rake gives more DF at slow corners. Intelligent suspension can cause the rake to become smaller under hi speeds, less drag on straights.
Hmm, in that case the combination of improvements/better understanding of the PU's cooling requirement plus an uncompromised set-up (a compromised setup is what seemed to be Ferrari's problem in Australia to me) could have led to the spike in performance in Bahrain.

f1316
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by f1316 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:31 am

FW17 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:10 am
https://youtube.com/watch?v=1uOQoxw-GuA




SV has some problem is out of the corners

Out of turn 4 to turn 6 some loss

Out of turn 7 to turn 9 a huge loss;

Both cases not because of a bad exit

Sector 3 maybe he ran over some kerbs too much,

but there is something wrong with the engine
I initially wondered if he was on a lower df setting - there was a comment on commentary about him consistently topping speed traps - this could have made it harder for him to put the power down and it might have also affected his tyre mgmt in the race.

I haven’t visually noticed this difference in wing level though, I must admit.

Mr.G
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by Mr.G » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:11 pm

henry wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:49 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:13 am
I've been reading in the engine thread that they are using both MGU-K and MGU-H at the same time to push the engine along the straights and then at the end of the straight switch both to charge the ES. This is why telemetry traces show them tailing off at the end of the straight with Mercedes still pulling.
Only the MGU-K drives the car. The MGU-H can send energy to the MGU-K but it does not increase the power available. A more powerful MGU-H may increase the length of time the MGU-K can be used by reducing the rate of use of the energy flow from ES to MGU-K.
MGU-H helps the ICE therefore it can be done... H boosting turbo means more power from ICE + K helping (both H and K drain the battery at the same time).
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

Capharol
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by Capharol » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:20 pm

Mr.G wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:11 pm
henry wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:49 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:13 am
I've been reading in the engine thread that they are using both MGU-K and MGU-H at the same time to push the engine along the straights and then at the end of the straight switch both to charge the ES. This is why telemetry traces show them tailing off at the end of the straight with Mercedes still pulling.
Only the MGU-K drives the car. The MGU-H can send energy to the MGU-K but it does not increase the power available. A more powerful MGU-H may increase the length of time the MGU-K can be used by reducing the rate of use of the energy flow from ES to MGU-K.
MGU-H helps the ICE therefore it can be done... H boosting turbo means more power from ICE + K helping (both H and K drain the battery at the same time).
if this is really possible, the next question is? is it legal? and if it is why hasn't Mercedes thought of it
i am not that technical .... but i am trying to understand
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
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Mr.G
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by Mr.G » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:23 pm

Is legal... Maybe they think about that but F1 is complicated and what works for one team doesn't have to work for another...
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

NL_Fer
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by NL_Fer » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:31 pm

Mercedes has a different turbo than Ferrari. Maybe they are more limited now?

Capharol
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by Capharol » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:47 pm

Mr.G wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:23 pm
Is legal... Maybe they think about that but F1 is complicated and what works for one team doesn't have to work for another...
thank you
that of course is another aspect of the situation, that's why teams can't copy any wings, bargeboards etc. from another team
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

roon
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by roon » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:56 am


AnthonyG
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by AnthonyG » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:03 am

NL_Fer wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:31 pm
Mercedes has a different turbo than Ferrari. Maybe they are more limited now?
In what way is their turbo different?
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

Holm86
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by Holm86 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:20 am

AnthonyG wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:03 am
NL_Fer wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:31 pm
Mercedes has a different turbo than Ferrari. Maybe they are more limited now?
In what way is their turbo different?
Mercedes turbine housing is integraded into the block, MGU-H sits in the V of the engine, and turbine at the back.

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by MtthsMlw » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:24 am

Spoonish RW tested in Bahrain.
Image
@SmilexTech

zibby43
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

Post by zibby43 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:44 am