Red Bull RB15

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
etusch
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by etusch » Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:53 pm

McMika98 wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:37 pm
Marti_EF3 wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:34 pm
Xray wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:23 am

Back to your usual nagging? Anyway, STR has the inboard loading as well, plenty of data available there...
Agreed. STR went the opposite way, so they have full data to compare. So I think it's not a big deal
The aero teams are independent, one in Bicester other in Milton Keynes. They cant share information, they dont use same resources unlike Haas and Ferrari who use same wind tunnel. If FIA gets wind of information sharing they will fine them.
You are forcing yourself to reach what is in your hearth instead of looking reality. First of all back side of Toro Rosso car was Redbull's car last year. They know all about back side of it except front wing ( maybe ) and just need to know about front wing. If they send a few aerodynamist to TR and transfer back them to Redbull, it all completed in the right way.
But for sure Redbull and Newey don't need to those things. They can built their own concept and can test during winter testing good enough for fighting top again.

McMika98
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by McMika98 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:30 pm

Redbull are sharing the rear suspension and gearbox, all internal components. Have you seen the rear wing or floor from last year? The aero concepts have been developed independently, they cant share aero data acc to FIA rules. Its too risky, all it takes is a disgruntled employee to blow the whistle and then the team will be excluded from the results. So nope they wont be doing it. It would be easier if they had shared the same wind tunnel so its more easy to communicate ideas.

Xray
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by Xray » Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:37 pm

McMika98 wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:30 pm
Redbull are sharing the rear suspension and gearbox, all internal components. Have you seen the rear wing or floor from last year? The aero concepts have been developed independently, they cant share aero data acc to FIA rules. Its too risky, all it takes is a disgruntled employee to blow the whistle and then the team will be excluded from the results. So nope they wont be doing it. It would be easier if they had shared the same wind tunnel so its more easy to communicate ideas.
Please stop... even without the data all it is they need is to transfer the basics, it’s something that can’t be controlled. Stop trying to keep to your silly point..

Slo Poke
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by Slo Poke » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:52 am

Big Tea wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:42 pm
Slo Poke wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:07 am
Red Bull presently have two fine drivers and as such, for 2020, a little protection wouldn’t go amiss here. Albon will have been instructed to go out and test that fancy wing and look where it put him. Seems to me Red Bull are merely playing around with aerodynamical misleads trying to make sense of fezza and merc’s turn in, apex and exit speed. Well the answer to that little conundrum isn’t to be found in aero and as such Red Bull need to be just a tad more circumspect, surely they know what they’re competing against. I do, to the extent that at times I’m sorry I’m still alive. The fezza and merc turn in, apex and exit abilities are to be found mechanically within the differential, it’s as simple as that, before anyone gets inadvertently hurt due to some orchestrated low speed test.
I thought along the same lines. They do not want to destroy Albon's confidence, so why give him the one-and-only-super-duper-next-big-thing wing to go and test in the wet with not even the best tyre on?

Smacks of mis-direction to me. Some valuable time wasted by the competition checking just in case it real was the plan to go down that road and follow something RBR thought may be worthwhile, even if they tested it and knew different.
Hi! Big Tea. You can safely bet Adrian Newey knew different but to check it out isn’t a bad thing. I for one can’t see as there’s much to be said about vortices other than for click bait. What structural integrity does a vortex possess, as I’ve seen very little. Unless of course you’re flying a light aircraft into Heathrow ten or fifteen seconds behind a jumbo jet, then maybe there’s a sort of integrity. I really don’t know what or where all the fuss is coming from concerning these vortices other than the analogy I mentioned! Even a fancy front wing working in conjunction with bargeboards fails to make any sense with me, what with the wheel itself and then wheel wake and then suspension struts then bodywork fuselage all combining to mar if not utterly destroy some artificially induced whirlwind of wishy-washy air. It’s click bait nothing more!
So! There has to be some other reason for the fezza and merc superior turn in, apex and exit speed and that is to be found within their differentials. There are devices both of these teams are using to control, when cornering, individual rear wheel speed. When the inner wheel is asked, or has to slow down for turn in, the outer rear wheel is obliged to speed up. All this will be adjustable by the dial on the steering wheel. Passing through apex to corner exit all of these team drivers are benefiting from what can be described as a locked differential. In fact from lights out to checkered flag all of these team drivers are benefiting from what can accurately be called a locked differential. Now! Here exists the point of my initial comment. In a comment I posted some while ago I opined the idea that a fly all too often gets in the differential and disrupts things somewhat and plants Vettel in the grass, Canada anyone, well that fly just happens to be asymmetrical driveshaft length. The fezzas and mercs have cars that now sport driveshafts of equal length, which successfully banishes any fly from ever getting in there. So for Max or Alex to try and make their cars emulate what the two aforementioned cars can do, would be a little silly.
Furthermore, I’ve heard that someone has stated that what merc, has to have shared knowledge of, to the fezza crew, for the continued public interest of f1, was sent in to Brackely by a merc truck museum curator based in Stuttgart. Can anyone? Anyone at all that frequents this forum explain to me why anyone in Stuttgart would send an invention worth absolutely billions in to Brackely if they were not near Death?

nzjrs
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by nzjrs » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:41 am

Slo Poke wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:07 am
Red Bull presently have two fine drivers and as such, for 2020, a little protection wouldn’t go amiss here. Albon will have been instructed to go out and test that fancy wing and look where it put him.
You mean his crash? That looks like the old wing, no?

https://mobile.twitter.com/tgruener/sta ... 7143940096

Slo Poke
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by Slo Poke » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:20 am

nzjrs wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:41 am
Slo Poke wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:07 am
Red Bull presently have two fine drivers and as such, for 2020, a little protection wouldn’t go amiss here. Albon will have been instructed to go out and test that fancy wing and look where it put him.
You mean his crash? That looks like the old wing, no?

https://mobile.twitter.com/tgruener/sta ... 7143940096
As far as I’m aware nzjrs Albon’s car was fitted with a new wing to be tested along with another test made by Verstappen either earlier or after Albon’s mishap! Chances are you’re going to correct me. Have at it my friend as I care not one jot.

Big Tea
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by Big Tea » Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:02 pm

Slo Poke wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:52 am
Big Tea wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:42 pm
Slo Poke wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:07 am
Red Bull presently have two fine drivers and as such, for 2020, a little protection wouldn’t go amiss here. Albon will have been instructed to go out and test that fancy wing and look where it put him. Seems to me Red Bull are merely playing around with aerodynamical misleads trying to make sense of fezza and merc’s turn in, apex and exit speed. Well the answer to that little conundrum isn’t to be found in aero and as such Red Bull need to be just a tad more circumspect, surely they know what they’re competing against. I do, to the extent that at times I’m sorry I’m still alive. The fezza and merc turn in, apex and exit abilities are to be found mechanically within the differential, it’s as simple as that, before anyone gets inadvertently hurt due to some orchestrated low speed test.
I thought along the same lines. They do not want to destroy Albon's confidence, so why give him the one-and-only-super-duper-next-big-thing wing to go and test in the wet with not even the best tyre on?

Smacks of mis-direction to me. Some valuable time wasted by the competition checking just in case it real was the plan to go down that road and follow something RBR thought may be worthwhile, even if they tested it and knew different.
Hi! Big Tea. You can safely bet Adrian Newey knew different but to check it out isn’t a bad thing. I for one can’t see as there’s much to be said about vortices other than for click bait. What structural integrity does a vortex possess, as I’ve seen very little. Unless of course you’re flying a light aircraft into Heathrow ten or fifteen seconds behind a jumbo jet, then maybe there’s a sort of integrity. I really don’t know what or where all the fuss is coming from concerning these vortices other than the analogy I mentioned! Even a fancy front wing working in conjunction with bargeboards fails to make any sense with me, what with the wheel itself and then wheel wake and then suspension struts then bodywork fuselage all combining to mar if not utterly destroy some artificially induced whirlwind of wishy-washy air. It’s click bait nothing more!
So! There has to be some other reason for the fezza and merc superior turn in, apex and exit speed and that is to be found within their differentials. There are devices both of these teams are using to control, when cornering, individual rear wheel speed. When the inner wheel is asked, or has to slow down for turn in, the outer rear wheel is obliged to speed up. All this will be adjustable by the dial on the steering wheel. Passing through apex to corner exit all of these team drivers are benefiting from what can be described as a locked differential. In fact from lights out to checkered flag all of these team drivers are benefiting from what can accurately be called a locked differential. Now! Here exists the point of my initial comment. In a comment I posted some while ago I opined the idea that a fly all too often gets in the differential and disrupts things somewhat and plants Vettel in the grass, Canada anyone, well that fly just happens to be asymmetrical driveshaft length. The fezzas and mercs have cars that now sport driveshafts of equal length, which successfully banishes any fly from ever getting in there. So for Max or Alex to try and make their cars emulate what the two aforementioned cars can do, would be a little silly.
Furthermore, I’ve heard that someone has stated that what merc, has to have shared knowledge of, to the fezza crew, for the continued public interest of f1, was sent in to Brackely by a merc truck museum curator based in Stuttgart. Can anyone? Anyone at all that frequents this forum explain to me why anyone in Stuttgart would send an invention worth absolutely billions in to Brackely if they were not near Death?
What I was getting at, but went a long way around was, RBR know it does nor work, so wing is no use to them. Sens it out on a damp day so all sorts of patterns can be seen, then forget about it, but let others waste time studding it.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

Morteza
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by Morteza » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:25 am

Some comparison shots of the new front wing RB brought to Brazil with the old spec (via AMuS)
Image

New
Image
Old
Image
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Morteza
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by Morteza » Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:50 pm

Infrared sensors to measure tyre temps fit on the Red Bull sidepods
Image
Via @AlbertFabrega
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

PhillipM
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by PhillipM » Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:29 pm

This diff talk is...entertaining...red bull has asymmetrical driveshafts now and that's why it can't corner as well? #-o
I haven't seen a single F1 car with asymmetrical driveshafts for decades.
As for the benefit of "what can be described as a locked differential" on corner exit - I'd put money on every single car on the grid already having almost 100% lockup on corner exit after the apex and having done so for many, many years.

And to get to the talk about it not being aero related - the RB15 had a big uptick in performance and noticably better turn in just from small tweaks they did to the front wing a while ago....

Maplesoup
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by Maplesoup » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:17 pm

PhillipM wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 5:29 pm
This diff talk is...entertaining...red bull has asymmetrical driveshafts now and that's why it can't corner as well? #-o
I haven't seen a single F1 car with asymmetrical driveshafts for decades.
I'm sorry, what!!!! Asymmetrical drive shaft???

Just look at the car there is no space to have an offset diff, the aero would have to be asymmetrical too. Near of the car is too tightly packaged for that.

Morteza
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by Morteza » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:37 pm

Image
Via AMuS
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by godlameroso » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:16 pm

Slo Poke wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:52 am
Big Tea wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:42 pm
Slo Poke wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:07 am
Red Bull presently have two fine drivers and as such, for 2020, a little protection wouldn’t go amiss here. Albon will have been instructed to go out and test that fancy wing and look where it put him. Seems to me Red Bull are merely playing around with aerodynamical misleads trying to make sense of fezza and merc’s turn in, apex and exit speed. Well the answer to that little conundrum isn’t to be found in aero and as such Red Bull need to be just a tad more circumspect, surely they know what they’re competing against. I do, to the extent that at times I’m sorry I’m still alive. The fezza and merc turn in, apex and exit abilities are to be found mechanically within the differential, it’s as simple as that, before anyone gets inadvertently hurt due to some orchestrated low speed test.
I thought along the same lines. They do not want to destroy Albon's confidence, so why give him the one-and-only-super-duper-next-big-thing wing to go and test in the wet with not even the best tyre on?

Smacks of mis-direction to me. Some valuable time wasted by the competition checking just in case it real was the plan to go down that road and follow something RBR thought may be worthwhile, even if they tested it and knew different.
Hi! Big Tea. You can safely bet Adrian Newey knew different but to check it out isn’t a bad thing. I for one can’t see as there’s much to be said about vortices other than for click bait. What structural integrity does a vortex possess, as I’ve seen very little. Unless of course you’re flying a light aircraft into Heathrow ten or fifteen seconds behind a jumbo jet, then maybe there’s a sort of integrity. I really don’t know what or where all the fuss is coming from concerning these vortices other than the analogy I mentioned! Even a fancy front wing working in conjunction with bargeboards fails to make any sense with me, what with the wheel itself and then wheel wake and then suspension struts then bodywork fuselage all combining to mar if not utterly destroy some artificially induced whirlwind of wishy-washy air. It’s click bait nothing more!
So! There has to be some other reason for the fezza and merc superior turn in, apex and exit speed and that is to be found within their differentials. There are devices both of these teams are using to control, when cornering, individual rear wheel speed. When the inner wheel is asked, or has to slow down for turn in, the outer rear wheel is obliged to speed up. All this will be adjustable by the dial on the steering wheel. Passing through apex to corner exit all of these team drivers are benefiting from what can be described as a locked differential. In fact from lights out to checkered flag all of these team drivers are benefiting from what can accurately be called a locked differential. Now! Here exists the point of my initial comment. In a comment I posted some while ago I opined the idea that a fly all too often gets in the differential and disrupts things somewhat and plants Vettel in the grass, Canada anyone, well that fly just happens to be asymmetrical driveshaft length. The fezzas and mercs have cars that now sport driveshafts of equal length, which successfully banishes any fly from ever getting in there. So for Max or Alex to try and make their cars emulate what the two aforementioned cars can do, would be a little silly.
Furthermore, I’ve heard that someone has stated that what merc, has to have shared knowledge of, to the fezza crew, for the continued public interest of f1, was sent in to Brackely by a merc truck museum curator based in Stuttgart. Can anyone? Anyone at all that frequents this forum explain to me why anyone in Stuttgart would send an invention worth absolutely billions in to Brackely if they were not near Death?
Interesting theory, however, the RB15 is now the fastest car in the low speed corners. S2 of Interlagos, and S3 in COTA, as well as sector 3 in Hungary show this, as well as Mexico.
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Re: Red Bull RB15

Post by Thunder » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:46 am

The RB16 Speculation Topic is now opened: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=28634
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum