2019 car comparison thread

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
muramasa
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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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f1316 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:24 pm
Great comparison, thanks.

Two distinct types of front wings: Ferrari, Alfa and Torro Rosso with the ‘concertina’ wings (with hit of it on the Racing Point), and the others using a far more conventional shaped wing; Mercedes the only car I’ve seen with that slight inward facing endplate.
Rather, only Merc and RBR have conventional wing and all the rest are tapered off wing camp, it's just different implementations of the same concept. There is no way Merc and RBR will run with current wings for races anyway, it's too obvious that these wings look very basic to the extent that it makes me chuckle. Ferrari's looks basic as well. These bigger teams can afford to sort of hide what they are up to until 2nd test.


Godius wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:34 pm
Overhead shot of the RB15 and STR14:

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg

A lot of similarities, in terms of shared parts, but somehow the engine cover on the RB15 is not as tight as the one on the STR14. I expect there will be an engine cover upgrade in Melbourne.
Neither engine cover is particularly tighter than the other, it's just different way of arranging outlet opening. On STR the area above exhaust pipe is closed and has bigger side outlets (which should be the reason why you get the impression that STR looks tighter), whereas RBR uses the area above the exhaust pipe as outlet and has smaller side outlets.

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Godius
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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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muramasa wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:45 pm


[...]
Godius wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:34 pm
Overhead shot of the RB15 and STR14:

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg

A lot of similarities, in terms of shared parts, but somehow the engine cover on the RB15 is not as tight as the one on the STR14. I expect there will be an engine cover upgrade in Melbourne.
Neither engine cover is particularly tighter than the other, it's just different way of arranging outlet opening. On STR the area above exhaust pipe is closed and has bigger side outlets (which should be the reason why you get the impression that STR looks tighter), whereas RBR uses the area above the exhaust pipe as outlet and has smaller side outlets.
Can't really agree with your assessment, the engine cover part of he bodywork is remarkably tighter. The outlets under the exhaust are indeed different in positioning and dimension but marginal I reckon:

STR14:
Image
(motorsport.com image)

RB15:
Image

bonjon1979
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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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muramasa wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:45 pm
f1316 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:24 pm
Great comparison, thanks.

Two distinct types of front wings: Ferrari, Alfa and Torro Rosso with the ‘concertina’ wings (with hit of it on the Racing Point), and the others using a far more conventional shaped wing; Mercedes the only car I’ve seen with that slight inward facing endplate.
Rather, only Merc and RBR have conventional wing and all the rest are tapered off wing camp, it's just different implementations of the same concept. There is no way Merc and RBR will run with current wings for races anyway, it's too obvious that these wings look very basic to the extent that it makes me chuckle. Ferrari's looks basic as well. These bigger teams can afford to sort of hide what they are up to until 2nd test.


Godius wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:34 pm
Overhead shot of the RB15 and STR14:

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg

A lot of similarities, in terms of shared parts, but somehow the engine cover on the RB15 is not as tight as the one on the STR14. I expect there will be an engine cover upgrade in Melbourne.
Neither engine cover is particularly tighter than the other, it's just different way of arranging outlet opening. On STR the area above exhaust pipe is closed and has bigger side outlets (which should be the reason why you get the impression that STR looks tighter), whereas RBR uses the area above the exhaust pipe as outlet and has smaller side outlets.
It looks to me that Merc's wing is the least 'refined' or certainly lacking more detailed shaping than every other car. It may well be the case that this is their final wing but that wouldn't be in line with the more complex modelling we've seen in the past. I have to say that I suspect that this is a very basic version of what's to come. I could be wrong though, just a gut instinct.

roon
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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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bonjon1979 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:13 am
It looks to me that Merc's wing is the least 'refined' or certainly lacking more detailed shaping than every other car. It may well be the case that this is their final wing but that wouldn't be in line with the more complex modelling we've seen in the past. I have to say that I suspect that this is a very basic version of what's to come. I could be wrong though, just a gut instinct.
Also, I think they're the only ones who've don't split the main plane of the front wing (the extension of the central neutral section.) Everyone else has a double-main, if you will, with three flaps above them. Merc have a single-main, with four flaps. Minor distinction, perhaps. :lol:

lio007
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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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bonjon1979 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:13 am
muramasa wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:45 pm
f1316 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:24 pm


Great comparison, thanks.

Two distinct types of front wings: Ferrari, Alfa and Torro Rosso with the ‘concertina’ wings (with hit of it on the Racing Point), and the others using a far more conventional shaped wing; Mercedes the only car I’ve seen with that slight inward facing endplate.
Rather, only Merc and RBR have conventional wing and all the rest are tapered off wing camp, it's just different implementations of the same concept. There is no way Merc and RBR will run with current wings for races anyway, it's too obvious that these wings look very basic to the extent that it makes me chuckle. Ferrari's looks basic as well. These bigger teams can afford to sort of hide what they are up to until 2nd test.


Godius wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:34 pm
Overhead shot of the RB15 and STR14:

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg
https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... _HiRes.jpg

A lot of similarities, in terms of shared parts, but somehow the engine cover on the RB15 is not as tight as the one on the STR14. I expect there will be an engine cover upgrade in Melbourne.
Neither engine cover is particularly tighter than the other, it's just different way of arranging outlet opening. On STR the area above exhaust pipe is closed and has bigger side outlets (which should be the reason why you get the impression that STR looks tighter), whereas RBR uses the area above the exhaust pipe as outlet and has smaller side outlets.
It looks to me that Merc's wing is the least 'refined' or certainly lacking more detailed shaping than every other car. It may well be the case that this is their final wing but that wouldn't be in line with the more complex modelling we've seen in the past. I have to say that I suspect that this is a very basic version of what's to come. I could be wrong though, just a gut instinct.
In terms of RBR, Christian Horner said that they will continue with their current Front wing because they see more potential in this solution.
He also mentioned it is possible that e.g. the Ferrari FW might not work on the RB15.

CriXus
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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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Image
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” - George Bernard Shaw

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Morteza
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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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Via @AlbertFabrega
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roon
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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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I didn't follow the discussion closely last year. Do these fins and bulges shed heat from the tire or absorb heat from brake disc exhaust? Or both. Or neither.

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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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roon wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:08 pm
I didn't follow the discussion closely last year. Do these fins and bulges shed heat from the tire or absorb heat from brake disc exhaust? Or both. Or neither.
I think someone said they give you more surface area for dissipating the heat.
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Leon
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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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moon-gazing-behold."

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roon
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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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Could part of the reason for Merc's larger wings (more frontal area) be due to the narrowness of their nose? Compare it to Ferrari in the previous image. I presume the wide RB-type noses produce more downforce than Merc's popsicle stick. So they make it back up in the wings.

roon
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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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Many comments about the W10's slim sidepod and engine cover design; however, Ferrari managed to narrow their role-hoop inlet and shorten their upper engine cover without apparent increase to the size of their sidepods (compared to last year). Merc still with the wide, multi-channel role-hoop inlet.

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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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f1316
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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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roon wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:24 pm
Could part of the reason for Merc's larger wings (more frontal area) be due to the narrowness of their nose? Compare it to Ferrari in the previous image. I presume the wide RB-type noses produce more downforce than Merc's popsicle stick. So they make it back up in the wings.
Lots of reasons, I think. I mean, look at the suspension: Mercedes are trying to get it it has high as possible (Allison said it was even higher than last year) and hence get air underneath, straight to the bargeboards etc.

I’m no aerodynamicist but it’s quite well visually illustrated in the above comparison that the way the Ferrari wing flares up in the inboard section would block some of that space under the suspension, so I can understand why they prefer a wing that has the oppposite shape - curving slightly up to the outboard part at the endplate. For Ferrari, that’s not a problem as they do the exact opposite of with their suspension: I.e. they’ve pushed as low as possible to be introduce an unobstructed airflow to the sidepods - hence they’re not bothered about that high inboard wing.

It’s almost certainly a total philosophy thing and my assessment is very armchair aerodynamicist - I’m sure it’s more complex than how i’m Interpreting it - but I think it shows how the two cars are trying to do two very different things and hence the same solutions won’t work across them.

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Re: 2019 car comparison thread

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare