Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:56 am
If more air is being flowed along the top of the rear floor and over the top of the diffuser, you'll get a lower pressure on top of the floor, not a higher one. Improving airflow over the top of the diffuser makes it more effective and so gives the improved downforce.

Assuming Mercedes are moving their sidepods "up", I'd expect a RedBull-style design rather than a Ferrari-style design.
Aahmm... Not exactly correct..
What you want at the back of the car is for the airflowto retain as much energy as possible (this reduces drag, and also allows you to use that air for other things).
The coke bottle air needs air with alot of energy so that it can utilized for the vortex generators at the side of the diffusers and the brake ducts, the gurneys the endpate and other devices..
So that is how the high velocity comes into play. The pressure is actually not low in that area because the velocity is still lower than free stream velocity in that coke bottle area. Usually the problems is the velocity is too slow if car design is really bad.
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zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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From Motorsport.com in Italy:

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... i/4649874/

Translation:

- High-top sidepods; re-arrange radiators for more efficient cooling. Spec 3 PU was never able to utilize its full potential due to cooling issues.

- Merc will re-arrange rear of car architecture, strive for even tighter packaging and rear than last year.

- Moving and re-designing fuel tank; new location is supposed to be lower for better CoG/balance reason.

toraabe
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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Never underestimate a 6 time successive world champion. Either complete radical or conservative. I am sure they will surprise. With a supposed massive improved PU, it could just be a repeat of last year.

wesley123
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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The big thing of relocating the side impact structure would be improved design freedom of the top surface of the sidepod. With the impact structure higher up, you'll always be limited to a certain thickness, and angle, of the top surface.

Outside of this all, you'll get more freedom for other aerodynamic elements.

like said by Toraabe; their design could go either way. Mercedes has always been guesswork with what they'll be up to next year.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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What is interesting is that it will open up a lot of avenues for them. If they can design a new architecture like that AND make it faster than last years car, it will put them in good stead to find a lot of improvements throughout the year.
Felipe Baby!

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... i/4651732/

"Simulations indicate return to leader in engines"

The data that the technicians are collecting during the bench tests indicates that Mercedes' power unit will benefit from a better engine cooling system that can work on different parameters to attack Ferrari's supremacy. A German consultant has arrived to help Andy Cowell.

Formula 1 is in hibernation, but in the factories the work of preparing the 2020 single-seaters is feverish. This year it is essential not to make mistakes in the approach to the season, because the technical offices will be more involved in the study of the 2021 cars than in the development of the current ones. In short, who will start well will be halfway through the work, following an old adage.

And then there will be the rumours, anticipations and chatter about the simulations of the top teams: Mercedes would have reached data higher than the projected forecasts set by the technical director, James Allison.

If so, the Silver Arrows would be ready to close this regulatory cycle with the seventh world championship in a row, following a streak that would have no precedent in the history of F1.

From the chassis point of view, the W11 will be a rather strong evolution of the world champion car with the radiator ports moved higher, having lowered the anti-intrusion crash structure from the waistline of the chassis.

The Mercedes, while maintaining the basic dimensions of the W10, takes up aerodynamic concepts that have been in vogue for three years at Ferrari. There are two aspects that have inspired this correction of direction: reducing the resistance to advancement, having a lot of aerodynamic load, and improving the cooling of the power unit.

At Brixworth, the technicians directed by Andy Cowell were counting on regaining motoring supremacy after Ferrari could count on the unquestionably more powerful engine in 2019. The renewed cooling system should put the Mercedes six-cylinder engine away from the reliability problems that had appeared last year on more than one occasion even on customer teams' engines.

Among other things, Cowell's staff would be joined by a German engineer specialising in new materials and chemistry who would identify the weak points of the Mercedes F1 M10 EQ Power+, helping to modify some of the power unit's operating parameters which, in bench tests, would testify to its newfound competitiveness.

What will be Ferrari and Red Bull's response to this further leap in Mercedes quality?

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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People are going to be pissed if that is true.
Felipe Baby!

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izzy
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:55 pm
The data that the technicians are collecting during the bench tests indicates that Mercedes' power unit will benefit from a better engine cooling system that can work on different parameters to attack Ferrari's supremacy. A German consultant has arrived to help Andy Cowell.
Among other things, Cowell's staff would be joined by a German engineer specialising in new materials and chemistry who would identify the weak points of the Mercedes F1 M10 EQ Power+, helping to modify some of the power unit's operating parameters which, in bench tests, would testify to its newfound competitiveness.
materials and cooling, does that combination mean additive manufacturing? Didn't cooling come up with the Ferrari speculation about it? As AM presumably allows them to build in more cooling channels that are smaller and closer to the combustion. And perhaps AM the radiators? istr someone, Martin Brundle perhaps, saying there can be 11 radiators in an F1 car so if they could make some of them to a particular weird shape with super thin walls in a magic material that could make a difference too

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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I think in the Ferrari engine thread there was discussion of graphene used in cooling systems allowing them to extract way more heat than traditional ones. Wonder if there is any truth to that and if Mercedes are now following suit.
Felipe Baby!

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izzy
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:44 pm
I think in the Ferrari engine thread there was discussion of graphene used in cooling systems allowing them to extract way more heat than traditional ones. Wonder if there is any truth to that and if Mercedes are now following suit.
yes good point, Marc Priestly blogged about it didn't he. "FlexeGRAPH has developed nano-fluids with graphene as the active ingredient that feature suspended particles that conduct heat 10,000X better than water. This provides a significant improvement in thermal conductivity over standard liquid coolants and has applications across many industries...."

and apparently they can 3-D print with graphene, you can buy the filament. Would they interact, a skin of graphene composite with graphene nanoparticles? So god knows what they might be doing! We need a mole!
Last edited by izzy on Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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izzy wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:21 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:55 pm
The data that the technicians are collecting during the bench tests indicates that Mercedes' power unit will benefit from a better engine cooling system that can work on different parameters to attack Ferrari's supremacy. A German consultant has arrived to help Andy Cowell.
Among other things, Cowell's staff would be joined by a German engineer specialising in new materials and chemistry who would identify the weak points of the Mercedes F1 M10 EQ Power+, helping to modify some of the power unit's operating parameters which, in bench tests, would testify to its newfound competitiveness.
materials and cooling, does that combination mean additive manufacturing? Didn't cooling come up with the Ferrari speculation about it? As AM presumably allows them to build in more cooling channels that are smaller and closer to the combustion. And perhaps AM the radiators? istr someone, Martin Brundle perhaps, saying there can be 11 radiators in an F1 car so if they could make some of them to a particular weird shape with super thin walls in a magic material that could make a difference too
Additive manaufacturing may already be in use for cooling chanenels. I know BMW uses it for tge same in its street cars. The channels and rest of negative volume of the cylinder head are 3D printed out of a sacrificial material and placed in the molding box.
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djones
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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Would the fancy coolant be heavier than water?

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3jawchuck
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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djones wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:31 pm
Would the fancy coolant be heavier than water?
Graphene is at least lighter than water. Short of the fluid being glycol, it is probably comparable or a bit lighter than regular water based coolant.
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izzy
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:49 pm
Additive manaufacturing may already be in use for cooling chanenels. I know BMW uses it for tge same in its street cars. The channels and rest of negative volume of the cylinder head are 3D printed out of a sacrificial material and placed in the molding box.
oh interesting, tho that's quite a crude use isn't it, a filler for casting, but yes i bet they are all at it. They want to run hotter and it must make that more possible

Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W11 Speculation Thread

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:25 pm
People are going to be pissed if that is true.
Some people... :lol:
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