Scuderia Ferrari SF91?? Speculation Thread

[PlatinumZealot]

Flat bottom.. Could be a flat peice of carbon fibre looking like a "platypus tail" extending from where the trailing edge of the plank to the rear of the car. Think of a diving board inside the diffuser.

This itself is not a hole in the floor and shouldn't contravene the tech regs. But with a big flat peice there, what sort of tricks can be played?

[zibby43]

I was referring to his comment that the lap times or improvements in terms of overall points of downforce gained were not where Ferrari wanted them to be at.

I never said that these reported results were surprising or that they came out of the blue, merely that they were allegedly unsatisfactory.

With no regulation changes for '20, the teams have a lot of data to work with for reference purposes. But even in preparing for the '19 season, admidst all the uncertainty in terms of what it would take to have a competitive car, James Allison referred to the massive amount of lost downforce points that the team observed with their first iteration of the W10 (when compared to the W09).

They slowly chipped away until they could recover as many as those points as possible. That's just one example of how the teams could be pleased or disappointed with the results of simulation data.

Turrini recently clarified: "I have NOT written that the 2020 Ferrari will be a toilet (bad). I trivially reported that the Maranello technicians were still not satisfied with the data collected at the factory, making it clear that there was no lack of time to fix things."

There is still time. But while you are spending time addressing an issue, a rival is further honing their design.

Oh okay yes well i have posted that same thought, that it's probably being dissatisfied rather than surprised by an 'issue'. That clarification confirms it, and so then it all depends on what their target was doesn't it. It might be refining, chasing that last tenth or two that they know is there somewhere. If i were a Ferrari fan I'd be reasonably optimistic still, I bet 2020 is going to be mostly about the driving more than anything

All very fair points. Totally can see that bolded section happening because of the stable regulations and continued PU convergence, too.

On a somewhat related note, Matthew Sommerfield brought up an interesting point recently: How many teams, when starting their 2020 car preparation, gambled on what would've been the newer-specification Pirelli tire with the wider operating window, as opposed to the '19 construction (which we're getting again in '20)?

[Just_a_fan]

Flat bottom.. Could be a flat peice of carbon fibre looking like a "platypus tail" extending from where the trailing edge of the plank to the rear of the car. Think of a diving board inside the diffuser.

This itself is not a hole in the floor and shouldn't contravene the tech regs. But with a big flat peice there, what sort of tricks can be played?

None, I'd say. Why give up a large percentage of your diffuser to stick a flat plank out the back?

[dtro]

Does anyone actually believe a word coming out of the media's proverbial mouths in re: Ferrari's car this year?

. . . do we really need to buy into the nonsense we're being fed? We'll see we're they're at.

I think this is a very fair point. All the leaks need to be taken with a grain of salt.

The interesting thing is that Leo Turrini provided similar information (re: disappointing simulations) a few weeks ago. He's an award-winning Italian journalist that has unprecedented access to Ferrari (compared to most other journalists).

Ferrari has struggled with quickly addressing and recovering from aero/chassis issues in recent years (something the new simulator is supposed to help rectify). There was the 2018 Singapore update that made the car slower. This year, it took until Singapore of 2019 to try to add downforce to the car, which seemed to help over a single lap, but in the waning races, the car's race pace was still nowhere.

I'm expecting the '20 Red Bull and Mercedes cars to be strong evolutions of their 2019 predecessors. Especially with the new regulations coming out in '21. Ferrari, on the other hand, needs to make some fairly substantial changes on their '20 challenger, as they absolutely have to get more balanced downforce on the car (especially if the PU advantage won't be as strong in '20, as that won't be able to potentiate the distinctively low-drag package that Ferrari chose in '19).

Still, it's all speculation right now. Just like you said.

Thank you for the cogent response. I've heard that Turrini is closer to an insider than most journalists, I just don't understand why any racing team would want to air their dirty laundry, especially right before the beginning of the season, making me think that this is a disinformation campaign moreso than a genuine appraisal of the state of this year's car.

I do recall how many of Ferrari's updates to the aero/chassis in the last couple of years haven't brought the level of improvement fans/the team anticipated, and in light of the fact that Merc/RB will likely be evolving their designs. I am concerned that Ferrari will be taking a revolutionary approach, but time will tell.

[PlatinumZealot]

Flat bottom.. Could be a flat peice of carbon fibre looking like a "platypus tail" extending from where the trailing edge of the plank to the rear of the car. Think of a diving board inside the diffuser.

This itself is not a hole in the floor and shouldn't contravene the tech regs. But with a big flat peice there, what sort of tricks can be played?

None, I'd say. Why give up a large percentage of your diffuser to stick a flat plank out the back?

It wont be gone the air will still flow over the top of it from the sides.

[Just_a_fan]

Flat bottom.. Could be a flat peice of carbon fibre looking like a "platypus tail" extending from where the trailing edge of the plank to the rear of the car. Think of a diving board inside the diffuser.

This itself is not a hole in the floor and shouldn't contravene the tech regs. But with a big flat peice there, what sort of tricks can be played?

None, I'd say. Why give up a large percentage of your diffuser to stick a flat plank out the back?

It wont be gone the air will still flow over the top of it from the sides.

What?

[zibby43]

Does anyone actually believe a word coming out of the media's proverbial mouths in re: Ferrari's car this year?

. . . do we really need to buy into the nonsense we're being fed? We'll see we're they're at.

I think this is a very fair point. All the leaks need to be taken with a grain of salt.

The interesting thing is that Leo Turrini provided similar information (re: disappointing simulations) a few weeks ago. He's an award-winning Italian journalist that has unprecedented access to Ferrari (compared to most other journalists).

Ferrari has struggled with quickly addressing and recovering from aero/chassis issues in recent years (something the new simulator is supposed to help rectify). There was the 2018 Singapore update that made the car slower. This year, it took until Singapore of 2019 to try to add downforce to the car, which seemed to help over a single lap, but in the waning races, the car's race pace was still nowhere.

I'm expecting the '20 Red Bull and Mercedes cars to be strong evolutions of their 2019 predecessors. Especially with the new regulations coming out in '21. Ferrari, on the other hand, needs to make some fairly substantial changes on their '20 challenger, as they absolutely have to get more balanced downforce on the car (especially if the PU advantage won't be as strong in '20, as that won't be able to potentiate the distinctively low-drag package that Ferrari chose in '19).

Still, it's all speculation right now. Just like you said.

Thank you for the cogent response. I've heard that Turrini is closer to an insider than most journalists, I just don't understand why any racing team would want to air their dirty laundry, especially right before the beginning of the season, making me think that this is a disinformation campaign moreso than a genuine appraisal of the state of this year's car.

I do recall how many of Ferrari's updates to the aero/chassis in the last couple of years haven't brought the level of improvement fans/the team anticipated, and in light of the fact that Merc/RB will likely be evolving their designs. I am concerned that Ferrari will be taking a revolutionary approach, but time will tell.

I agree. IMHO, there can only be 2 possibilities as to why information like this would leak from inside the team.

Disinformation (which you pointed out above) is certainly a possibility. The counter-argument to that would be, what purpose would it serve? Teams aren't going to back off their development based on what others are doing, particularly this early in the game.

Or would they? After 2019, I remember Ferrari finally admitting that they thought they were about 0.5s ahead of Mercedes after pre-season testing concluded. I don't think Ferrari necessarily rested on their laurels until Melbourne, but did they maybe not want to "mess" (for lack of a better word) with the car if they thought the initial advantage was that great?

Possibility 2 is tamping down expectations for a rabid fan base because the team aren't quite sure what they have with the '20 car, after having to make some fairly substantial changes to the platform.

Or, it could be neither of these, and a passing comment made to Turrini along the lines of "We're not where we want to be yet" has been blown out of proportion because we're all thirsty for some F1 right about now.

[LM10]

Disinformation (which you pointed out above) is certainly a possibility. The counter-argument to that would be, what purpose would it serve? Teams aren't going to back off their development based on what others are doing, particularly this early in the game.

I guess it’s a bit like Mercedes trying to act like underdogs every year. I’ve also never understood what purpose such so called mind games serve.

[PlatinumZealot]

None, I'd say. Why give up a large percentage of your diffuser to stick a flat plank out the back?

It wont be gone the air will still flow over the top of it from the sides.

What?

Diagram on the way.

[zibby43]

Disinformation (which you pointed out above) is certainly a possibility. The counter-argument to that would be, what purpose would it serve? Teams aren't going to back off their development based on what others are doing, particularly this early in the game.

I guess it’s a bit like Mercedes trying to act like underdogs every year. I’ve also never understood what purpose such so called mind games serve.

That's an easy one.

It is to motivate their own team. They don't lie about their own performance; they talk up the competition and take their rivals seriously.

So far, the approach seems to be working.

[dtro]

I think this is a very fair point. All the leaks need to be taken with a grain of salt.

The interesting thing is that Leo Turrini provided similar information (re: disappointing simulations) a few weeks ago. He's an award-winning Italian journalist that has unprecedented access to Ferrari (compared to most other journalists).

Ferrari has struggled with quickly addressing and recovering from aero/chassis issues in recent years (something the new simulator is supposed to help rectify). There was the 2018 Singapore update that made the car slower. This year, it took until Singapore of 2019 to try to add downforce to the car, which seemed to help over a single lap, but in the waning races, the car's race pace was still nowhere.

I'm expecting the '20 Red Bull and Mercedes cars to be strong evolutions of their 2019 predecessors. Especially with the new regulations coming out in '21. Ferrari, on the other hand, needs to make some fairly substantial changes on their '20 challenger, as they absolutely have to get more balanced downforce on the car (especially if the PU advantage won't be as strong in '20, as that won't be able to potentiate the distinctively low-drag package that Ferrari chose in '19).

Still, it's all speculation right now. Just like you said.

Thank you for the cogent response. I've heard that Turrini is closer to an insider than most journalists, I just don't understand why any racing team would want to air their dirty laundry, especially right before the beginning of the season, making me think that this is a disinformation campaign moreso than a genuine appraisal of the state of this year's car.

I do recall how many of Ferrari's updates to the aero/chassis in the last couple of years haven't brought the level of improvement fans/the team anticipated, and in light of the fact that Merc/RB will likely be evolving their designs. I am concerned that Ferrari will be taking a revolutionary approach, but time will tell.

I agree. IMHO, there can only be 2 possibilities as to why information like this would leak from inside the team.

Disinformation (which you pointed out above) is certainly a possibility. The counter-argument to that would be, what purpose would it serve? Teams aren't going to back off their development based on what others are doing, particularly this early in the game.

Or would they? After 2019, I remember Ferrari finally admitting that they thought they were about 0.5s ahead of Mercedes after pre-season testing concluded. I don't think Ferrari necessarily rested on their laurels until Melbourne, but did they maybe not want to "mess" (for lack of a better word) with the car if they thought the initial advantage was that great?

Possibility 2 is tamping down expectations for a rabid fan base because the team aren't quite sure what they have with the '20 car, after having to make some fairly substantial changes to the platform.

Or, it could be neither of these, and a passing comment made to Turrini along the lines of "We're not where we want to be yet" has been blown out of proportion because we're all thirsty for some F1 right about now.

I'm not certain what purpose it serves to seed disinformation among the teams, especially considering the large grain of salt Merc/RB and co. would take anything they read available to the general public. Though I do see an off-chance of competitors taking their foot off the gas metaphorically and literally if they know their main opponent is gassed.

There is the possibility that seeding disinformation could calm and dissuade fans who are expecting something extraordinary.

Finally it could like others have said have an effect on the morale in the team, sort of a don't rest on the idea that y'all are Ferrari, etc. Better to say you're trash and use that as motivation to outperform yourself and others than say you'll be winning the championship tomorrow type deal.

Maybe "we're not where we want to be yet" has been blown out of proportion, hopefully.

If they can improve the tyre wear and the car's ability to get the tyres in their window among other things they should have an honest chance... Disinformation campaign will work, Ferrari 2020!

Definitely thirsty.

[Maplesoup]

I think you've got to remember Ferrari isn't the same as mercedes or red bull. It's a highly political environment, I think if someone isn't happy with how things are being run or the results they are seeing then they'll speak out about it.

[f1jcw]

Why would disinformation work with Merc and red bull as they probably regard each other as their main competitors and not Ferrari

[Ced]

Flat bottom is simply the floor

[SiLo]

All of this is likely referencing the diffuser, and that they want to increase rake but can't get the diffuser working properly (read: they can't keep it sealed very well).