McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
User avatar
Holm86
231
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:37 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

godlameroso wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:03 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:30 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:36 pm


In his defense, they spent their resources more on fitting the Renault power unit than they did on aero in 2018. 2019 was more normal, but still couldn't develop the aero due to being on the back foot. 2020 will be the first real litmus test for the aero team as they've had plenty of time to develop the new car based on 2019. Now they no longer need to play catch up because of power unit swaps, they no longer have to redesign their concept to better exploit the regulations. All that was done last year, so this year we get to see the true creativity of the aero department.
He has been with McLaren since 2014, I know they've had several engine troubles since departing with Mercedes, so I guess he should still have a chance. But so far his merits is only being Neweys apprentice.
In other words his input was reflected on the car from 2015. We can hardly make a decent comparison due to the Honda engine, in 2016 the Honda engine had too high COG which compromised the chassis. 2017 the aero and car itself was very good relative to the others, which showed there is talent in the aero department. It's a shame it took Honda so long to sort out its issues, and switching to Renault compromised both the chassis and the aero. 2019 again was a more normal year without chassis or aero compromises and they built something good. 2020 is once again a normal year, so the progress they make will tell us for sure how good the aero department is.

I hear that the car is better everywhere, but probably not enough to fight with the front runners. Ultimately that restriction is down to the power unit layout, in my opinion. Or at least the power unit layout keeps you from getting the most of the current and future regulations.

If McLaren does make the switch do they take a Mercedes transmission or keep building their own? The transmission volume itself is not regulated and can make a huge aero impact. One of the big reasons McLaren took a big step is the transmission. Not just the transmission, but the cooling and lubrication of the transmission as well, it's a big part of the development curve.
I hope you're right about the improvements, I miss seeing McLaren at the top, they've always been my team. When it comes to the transmission, I guess they will keep designing them themselves. They have the facilities to do so, and it's an integral part of the aero design and rear suspension design.

User avatar
_cerber1
162
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

Renault seems to have approved such an intake system.
Image

f1rules
f1rules
356
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:34 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

Yeah i send this pic to scarbs also, seem he was on to something

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
204
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:54 am

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

godlameroso wrote:
Holm86 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:30 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:36 pm
In his defense, they spent their resources more on fitting the Renault power unit than they did on aero in 2018. 2019 was more normal, but still couldn't develop the aero due to being on the back foot. 2020 will be the first real litmus test for the aero team as they've had plenty of time to develop the new car based on 2019. Now they no longer need to play catch up because of power unit swaps, they no longer have to redesign their concept to better exploit the regulations. All that was done last year, so this year we get to see the true creativity of the aero department.
He has been with McLaren since 2014, I know they've had several engine troubles since departing with Mercedes, so I guess he should still have a chance. But so far his merits is only being Neweys apprentice.
In other words his input was reflected on the car from 2015. We can hardly make a decent comparison due to the Honda engine, in 2016 the Honda engine had too high COG which compromised the chassis. 2017 the aero and car itself was very good relative to the others, which showed there is talent in the aero department. It's a shame it took Honda so long to sort out its issues, and switching to Renault compromised both the chassis and the aero. 2019 again was a more normal year without chassis or aero compromises and they built something good. 2020 is once again a normal year, so the progress they make will tell us for sure how good the aero department is.

I hear that the car is better everywhere, but probably not enough to fight with the front runners. Ultimately that restriction is down to the power unit layout, in my opinion. Or at least the power unit layout keeps you from getting the most of the current and future regulations.

If McLaren does make the switch do they take a Mercedes transmission or keep building their own? The transmission volume itself is not regulated and can make a huge aero impact. One of the big reasons McLaren took a big step is the transmission. Not just the transmission, but the cooling and lubrication of the transmission as well, it's a big part of the development curve.

Furthermore, for 2021 it seems that transmissions have to be homologated and will be homologated for years so if you have a really good transmission(a lot of parts and dimensions are being standardized), then you can be competitive.
I don’t necessarily agree with a several of your posts, but I have to agree a lot with this one... The aero team at Mclaren hasn’t really have had a chance to showcase their capabilities until the MCL34... The MCL35 which will be an evolution, should show us what they can do and that’s very intriguing.

I also agree with you that the gap that needs to be covered to join the front runners is unluckily to big to cover in one winter and we won’t be seeing Mclaren mixing it up with with the top 3 in 2020.

I like the fact that the team, even though is already thinking about 2021 (or 2023 based on their comments) to join the fight, it’s not giving up on 2020 just yet... If they manage to cover some of the gap, they could aim for some decent point scoring opportunities when the guys at the front have issues


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

f1rules
f1rules
356
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:34 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

lets bring a little more speculation to the table :-) look at this picture, the blured guy in the foreground, look his reflection in the glass, where his hair ends, im bettimg its the sidepod shape we can see the end of
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPd1y_IWoAE ... =4096x4096
Image

which remind this alot, which would make very good sense to go agressive rb style sidepod when you make a huge airbox air intake :-)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIPA81NX0AE ... =4096x4096
Image

this was last year which was a lot more squared
Image
Last edited by f1rules on Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

the EDGE
the EDGE
86
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Luton ENGLAND

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

f1rules wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:15 pm
lets bring a little more speculation to the table :-) look at this picture, the blured guy in the foreground, look his reflection in the glass, where his hair ends, im bettimg its the sidepod shape we can see the end of
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPd1y_IWoAE ... =4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPd1y_IWoAE ... =4096x4096

which remind this alot, which would make very good sense to go agressive rb style sidepod when you make a huge airbox air intake :-)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIPA81NX0AE ... =4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIPA81NX0AE ... =4096x4096
His belt? Mostly blue with a splash of papaya?

I’m beginning to think it could go that way... not sure I’d like it however. The Mcl34 hit the spot for me, it will be hard to improve on

Emag
Emag
56
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:56 pm

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

I am pretty sure that the team is being very careful with the management of the expectations. Back in 2018, they overhyped themselves to the point that it was actually very damaging to the reputation and the team spirit when they turned out not so good (to say the least). Coming from a strong year the team had in 2019, they are obviously trying not to get carried away. 2012 (the last competitive season), is so far away right now, that it's not even fair to compare the team back then with the team right now. The wrongdoings of the last seven years cannot be undone so easily, so please be patient. Patience and support is what the team needs right now. For as long as they keep an upwards trajectory, they will get back where they belong, but we can't realistically expect them to be fighting for wins and titles after just two years from what was an horrendous season (2018).

The realistic time target that they have set for themselves for that goal is 2023. And looking at the reason behind that target, it's not really that surprising that it might actually take a while after the new regs in 2021 for midfield teams to catch up with the top 3 even with the budget cap. The top teams are probably spending so much right now, that their advantage in the first season with the new regs will probably be as big as it is right now. Until everything settles down (which may take two years, may takes less), I don't expect any midfield teams to fight for wins or podiums on genuine pace.

And I am taking a dig at Renault when I say this. Renault in my opinion is the perfect example of a delusional team (or perhaps just a delusional team principal). The official comments that are coming from that team regarding their chances for 2021 are, let's just say, very optimistic. I don't know how they can expect to fight on level with the top teams, and how they think that they are the most focused team for 2021 is beyond me. The top 3 is currently operating at twice their budget, and they think that they are not using any of that budget advantage to prepare for the 2021 regs. I don't know, Renault might turn out to be a beast and prove me wrong in 2021, however at the moment, I really don't like their PR statements.

McLaren used to be like that a couple of years ago, and it was seriously detestable. They are more humble now, and that is the right approach in my opinion. You look at Mercedes, they have been champions for 6 years in a row now, yet they never come out as pompous and arrogant. They always value their competition. McLaren is planing to operate at the budget cap when that settles in for the new regulations, however they are not underestimating their competitors, who have been at the top for almost 7 years now. That's why the realistic time-target for race wins is 2023, because you can never underestimate the effort that RedBull, Mercedes and Ferrari is putting in right now to develop their new regulation cars.

User avatar
_cerber1
162
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

the EDGE wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:23 pm

His belt? Mostly blue with a splash of papaya?

I’m beginning to think it could go that way... not sure I’d like it however. The Mcl34 hit the spot for me, it will be hard to improve on
Image

f1rules
f1rules
356
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:34 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

exactly thanks, i think thats the shoulder of the sidepod

kfrantzios
kfrantzios
40
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:19 pm
Location: Greece

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

f1rules wrote:exactly thanks, i think thats the shoulder of the sidepod
Isn't that too high to be part of the sidepod?

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk


Maplesoup
Maplesoup
22
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:25 pm

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

kfrantzios wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:27 am
f1rules wrote:exactly thanks, i think thats the shoulder of the sidepod
Isn't that too high to be part of the sidepod?

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
Car will be on a stand not on wheels on the floor. So may be higher than expected. They need to quickly get under the car to check for leaks etc

the EDGE
the EDGE
86
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Luton ENGLAND

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

_cerber1 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:23 am
the EDGE wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:23 pm

His belt? Mostly blue with a splash of papaya?

I’m beginning to think it could go that way... not sure I’d like it however. The Mcl34 hit the spot for me, it will be hard to improve on
https://radikal.ru
I know reflections can be deceptive, but to me the top of the shape is too slanted to be a side-pod.

I don’t ever recall seeing a side pod top which wasn’t flat

Lucky
Lucky
203
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:23 am

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

McLaren does not prepare a revolution, but an important evolution between its 2019 and 2020 models. The beloved MCL34, protagonist of the rebirth of the team, will give way to the new MCL35, developed during the last months in Woking under the guidelines of the James team Key and Andrea Stella, and the indications of Carlos Sainz. You should approach the British firm to the three head cars around half a second and move them away from Renault. To achieve this, engineers have proposed an announced change of concept in their design that although it is not groundbreaking, it is ambitious.

According to the sources of AS that have closely followed this process, the main differences will be in the rear of the car, as it will be somewhat narrower than that of its predecessor. On the front you will not appreciate so many changes, the front wing is similar to the past because it is the drawing that has ended up imposing itself on the rest of the grid, a Ferrari-style nose that inspires even Mercedes. But the back half, they say, has become narrower and more stylized.

In the wind tunnel, this MCL35 yields optimistic results: it generates more aerodynamic load and drag, or air resistance, does not increase. These two concepts are fundamental to understand the forces acting on an F1: if you have a greater support in a curve, your speed may be greater. And if this support has been achieved without increasing its air resistance, its straight speed will not be diminished either. However, if something prevails in the factory is prudence: no car has won races before being unpacked. Now there are details to be polished before the presentation of February 13 and its first start-up, on 19 in the preseason of Montmeló. And this year it is essential that the package works from the first major prizes, because it will not be compatible with the rules of 2021 and it will be difficult, or impossible, to justify important developments from the summer.

Last year, McLaren finished fourth in the constructors' championship with 145 points for the 91 of Renault, its engine manufacturer and main competitor, and climbed to the podium in Brazil with Sainz to break a run without uninterrupted champagne from Australia 2014, the first race of the hybrid era and still with Mercedes engine under the fairing.
https://as.com/motor/2020/01/31/formula ... 57212.html

Emag
Emag
56
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:56 pm

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

Lucky wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:59 pm
McLaren does not prepare a revolution, but an important evolution between its 2019 and 2020 models. The beloved MCL34, protagonist of the rebirth of the team, will give way to the new MCL35, developed during the last months in Woking under the guidelines of the James team Key and Andrea Stella, and the indications of Carlos Sainz. You should approach the British firm to the three head cars around half a second and move them away from Renault. To achieve this, engineers have proposed an announced change of concept in their design that although it is not groundbreaking, it is ambitious.

According to the sources of AS that have closely followed this process, the main differences will be in the rear of the car, as it will be somewhat narrower than that of its predecessor. On the front you will not appreciate so many changes, the front wing is similar to the past because it is the drawing that has ended up imposing itself on the rest of the grid, a Ferrari-style nose that inspires even Mercedes. But the back half, they say, has become narrower and more stylized.

In the wind tunnel, this MCL35 yields optimistic results: it generates more aerodynamic load and drag, or air resistance, does not increase. These two concepts are fundamental to understand the forces acting on an F1: if you have a greater support in a curve, your speed may be greater. And if this support has been achieved without increasing its air resistance, its straight speed will not be diminished either. However, if something prevails in the factory is prudence: no car has won races before being unpacked. Now there are details to be polished before the presentation of February 13 and its first start-up, on 19 in the preseason of Montmeló. And this year it is essential that the package works from the first major prizes, because it will not be compatible with the rules of 2021 and it will be difficult, or impossible, to justify important developments from the summer.

Last year, McLaren finished fourth in the constructors' championship with 145 points for the 91 of Renault, its engine manufacturer and main competitor, and climbed to the podium in Brazil with Sainz to break a run without uninterrupted champagne from Australia 2014, the first race of the hybrid era and still with Mercedes engine under the fairing.
https://as.com/motor/2020/01/31/formula ... 57212.html
This article suggests that the front of the car hasn't changed much, however I still think there will probably be some suspension changes in the front. Even if they might not be visible to the naked eye. Can't really think of any other way to fix their front-end weaknesses.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
204
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:54 am

Re: McLaren MCL35 Speculation Thread

Post

Was their front end weakness only related to the front wing not creating enough downforce or lack of mechanical grip... Is it possible that their front end problems were located at the rear of the car?

The type of wing that Mclaren was using was capable (from a concept perspective) of creating downforce, as showed by the likes of Ferrari... The problem for Mclaren last year could have been that the rear of car couldn’t create more than downforce at a given drag target and therefore the front wing was setup in a way to maintain the balance in the car (and therefore lack of front of end grip).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk