Red Bull RB16

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
ryaan2904
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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godlameroso wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:04 pm
ryaan2904 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:59 pm
That last image bargeboards clearly copy and paste from the one and only Mercedes. One or two post before this someone asked why other teams dont copy the mercs. Well, you got it :wink:
What's copied? They have to have some of the same features because they both have capes, but the actual shape of the bargeboards are very different. Mercedes has a dual element channel at the edge of the bargeboard, whereas RBR has those two wavy winglets. The venetian blinds are different as well, as are the boomerang elements.
I think copy came off as a very strong word for the situation sorry, but what I meant was that their ideology seems to be converging/will converge next year to Mercedes imo. My post was in reference to that other post where the guy was wondering why other teams dont copy the mercs

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:12 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:04 pm
ryaan2904 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:59 pm

That last image bargeboards clearly copy and paste from the one and only Mercedes. One or two post before this someone asked why other teams dont copy the mercs. Well, you got it :wink:
What's copied? They have to have some of the same features because they both have capes, but the actual shape of the bargeboards are very different. Mercedes has a dual element channel at the edge of the bargeboard, whereas RBR has those two wavy winglets. The venetian blinds are different as well, as are the boomerang elements.
I think copy came off as a very strong word for the situation sorry, but what I meant was that their ideology seems to be converging/will converge next year to Mercedes imo. My post was in reference to that other post where the guy was wondering why other teams dont copy the mercs
You're not wrong, teams are converging, only the Ferrari powered teams and Alpha Tauri are the only teams on the grid who don't use a cape. It's a resource consideration, would it be worth for those teams to switch philosophy when it took RB and Renault a large portion of this year to unlock its potential, or do you keep developing what you are already familiar with? The Ferrari chassis is pretty good, albeit a bit draggy and the engine is also neutered, would the cape and Mercedes feature that come with that be better? Perhaps, is it worth doing when you'll have to switch to a brand new aero concept in 2022?
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

ryaan2904
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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godlameroso wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:19 pm
ryaan2904 wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:12 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:04 pm


What's copied? They have to have some of the same features because they both have capes, but the actual shape of the bargeboards are very different. Mercedes has a dual element channel at the edge of the bargeboard, whereas RBR has those two wavy winglets. The venetian blinds are different as well, as are the boomerang elements.
I think copy came off as a very strong word for the situation sorry, but what I meant was that their ideology seems to be converging/will converge next year to Mercedes imo. My post was in reference to that other post where the guy was wondering why other teams dont copy the mercs
You're not wrong, teams are converging, only the Ferrari powered teams and Alpha Tauri are the only teams on the grid who don't use a cape. It's a resource consideration, would it be worth for those teams to switch philosophy when it took RB and Renault a large portion of this year to unlock its potential, or do you keep developing what you are already familiar with? The Ferrari chassis is pretty good, albeit a bit draggy and the engine is also neutered, would the cape and Mercedes feature that come with that be better? Perhaps, is it worth doing when you'll have to switch to a brand new aero concept in 2022?
About the cape thing, I've noticed that the J vanes in the Ferrari sort of converge at the bottom in such a way that the bottom part actually becomes sort of a cape. Have you noticed? Does that mean it has the benefits of both the J vanes and the cape?

ryaan2904
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Ill post a pic in the Ferrari thread

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Bandit1216
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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I meant more the big picture, rake and car lenght. Where the two fastest cars are on the oposite side of the spectrum. Not the details

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pierrre
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:09 pm
GioKer32 wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:16 am
Bandit1216 wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:53 am
Would high rake be a disadvantage on the 2021 smaller floors because of the sealing of the floor?
The high rake concept will be a disadvantage next year due to the smaller floor but, on top of that, because of the abolition of the slots in front of the rear tires.
They are fundamental to avoid dirty air going under the car damaging the aerodynamics of the diffuser, so next year diffusers will be way less efficient.
Why is the fia constantly making rules to make Mercedes faster anyways :x
trade off, higher rake too will be effected by the new rules because the floor is steeper so pressure build up towards the rear, on top of the floor is greater and that will move air around the new floors cut out towards underneath. low rake longer floor which has more surface area for ground effect, with the new floor rule, will allow negative pressure underneath the car to recover that negative pressure reducing ground effect unless the bargeboards and the rest of the aero package can keep the recovery at a minimum.

there is a huge aerodynamic advantage the longer chassis allows compared to a short chassis. vortex can run longer along the body to be more effective while certain criteria, say, if the aerodynamicist wants to drag as much air downwards as possible towards the diffuser and rear wing, the longer bodied car has more area to do this

one reason maybe that red bull racing are running a short chassis high rake is that, as the rear suspension compresses, the rate of air approach angle ratio change is greater than those running long chassis and maybe this is also why the mercedes-amg dont really bother running high rake because the angle will only change marginally while the suspension geometry is compromised further when running high rake angles
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Coefficient
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Has the interesting f1 stuff moved to a new thread or is f1 just not interesting anymore?
"I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it".

zibby43
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Image

Verstappen's tire issue gave us a peek at something we don't normally see on the Red Bull - "a knurled/ribbed finish on the inside surface of the wheel rim in order to help with temperature control."

via @SomersF1

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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pierrre wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:03 pm
ryaan2904 wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:09 pm
GioKer32 wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:16 am

The high rake concept will be a disadvantage next year due to the smaller floor but, on top of that, because of the abolition of the slots in front of the rear tires.
They are fundamental to avoid dirty air going under the car damaging the aerodynamics of the diffuser, so next year diffusers will be way less efficient.
Why is the fia constantly making rules to make Mercedes faster anyways :x
trade off, higher rake too will be effected by the new rules because the floor is steeper so pressure build up towards the rear, on top of the floor is greater and that will move air around the new floors cut out towards underneath. low rake longer floor which has more surface area for ground effect, with the new floor rule, will allow negative pressure underneath the car to recover that negative pressure reducing ground effect unless the bargeboards and the rest of the aero package can keep the recovery at a minimum.

there is a huge aerodynamic advantage the longer chassis allows compared to a short chassis. vortex can run longer along the body to be more effective while certain criteria, say, if the aerodynamicist wants to drag as much air downwards as possible towards the diffuser and rear wing, the longer bodied car has more area to do this

one reason maybe that red bull racing are running a short chassis high rake is that, as the rear suspension compresses, the rate of air approach angle ratio change is greater than those running long chassis and maybe this is also why the mercedes-amg dont really bother running high rake because the angle will only change marginally while the suspension geometry is compromised further when running high rake angles
The diffuser angle is steeper next year? That's a huge change, that alone is going to play havoc on diffuser aero. There are other benefits to running high rake angles, particularly because if you can tune the aero, it gives you more rear ride compliance. Helpful for running over kerbs, if you design your chassis around it, it shouldn't affect COG too badly either.

Is the shape Ferrari used while testing their 2021 floor going to be legal next year?

I don't know where RBR is going to use their tokens.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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Morteza
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Image

Image
Via Motorsport.com
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lio007
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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RedBull's front brake ducts are so big compared to e.g. Mercedes. Any guesses why they need them that big?

Image

Image

wesley123
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Aero benefits
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

Just_a_fan
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Pushing as much air as they can outboard through the wheel/hub system.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

ryaan2904
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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wesley123 wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:12 am
Aero benefits
But doesn't it give them high drag?

wesley123
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:26 pm
wesley123 wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:12 am
Aero benefits
But doesn't it give them high drag?
It might be, but the benefits most likely far outweigh this
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender