Red Bull RB16

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Cassius
Cassius
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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pierrre wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:00 pm
narrow pylon used in race
https://formularapida.net/wp-content/up ... scaled.jpg
2048x1333 size
It took them almost a full season to correct the balance issues due to the smaller front wing and the cape.

They introduced the narrow pylon FW in Styria or Hungary I think, then they removed it from to car to better understand the correlation issues between CGI/wind tunnel&track.

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lio007
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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seense wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:46 pm
On the FW you mean? Only on Max car.
Exactly! It's the one they used more or less from the beginning of FP1. They only used it once in Austria ( and realised it doesn't work as expected ). That's why I was a bit surprised, they did an aero-run and used it onwards in Abu Dhabi.

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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It didn't work as expected but did once they reprofiled the cape, made it more "hungry". When they started the year the cape was too small and it was creating a high pressure zone that was influencing the y250. It wasn't seen in the simulations, or the wind tunnel, but the real car showed that allowing more airflow to the cape "fixed" things as the Y-250 is less influenced.

They made so many other changes to improve the situation, that in a sense they kind of overcompensated for the issue, and learned a lot. So this may have been a frustrating year from a results point of view, but important lessons were learned about the current package that will allow them to improve next year.
Saishū kōnā

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lio007
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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godlameroso wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:22 pm
It didn't work as expected but did once they reprofiled the cape, made it more "hungry". When they started the year the cape was too small and it was creating a high pressure zone that was influencing the y250. It wasn't seen in the simulations, or the wind tunnel, but the real car showed that allowing more airflow to the cape "fixed" things as the Y-250 is less influenced.

They made so many other changes to improve the situation, that in a sense they kind of overcompensated for the issue, and learned a lot. So this may have been a frustrating year from a results point of view, but important lessons were learned about the current package that will allow them to improve next year.
I hope they won't have correlation issues again over the winter. It's quite strange that they had them year after year. Especially when they sorted it out over the season, came winter it happened again.
Does anybody know if they had an update of their wind tunnel in Bedford and e.g. something went wrong in callibration? Considering AT will use RB's wind tunnel as well from 2021 onwards they may have invested in their facility.
When we look at Merc, their correlation always seems to be spot on.

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Morteza
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Image

Image
Via @NicolasF1i
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pierrre
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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narrow pylons probably to bring pylon turbulence more to the center away from where the y-250 vortex works the cape, probably also not to disrupt the cape's forward opening angle
Last edited by pierrre on Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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pierrre wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:36 pm
narrow pylons probably to bring pylon turbulence more to the center away from there the y-250 vortex works the cape, probably also not to disrupt the cape's forward opening angle
Image

Probably why they added #3 to the front wing inboard edge. Strengthen Y250, to reduce cape turbulence from affecting it. Along with nose tweak and enlarging the cape, and adding the slot to the trailing edge of the cape to further reduce drag and the turbulence it induces. It's really amazing all those small changes working in unison. How much the car was developed but to us it just looks like tiny almost insignificant changes.
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pierrre
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:25 pm
pierrre wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:36 pm
narrow pylons probably to bring pylon turbulence more to the center away from there the y-250 vortex works the cape, probably also not to disrupt the cape's forward opening angle
https://soymotor.com/sites/default/file ... ymotor.jpg

Probably why they added #3 to the front wing inboard edge. Strengthen Y250, to reduce cape turbulence from affecting it. Along with nose tweak and enlarging the cape, and adding the slot to the trailing edge of the cape to further reduce drag and the turbulence it induces. It's really amazing all those small changes working in unison. How much the car was developed but to us it just looks like tiny almost insignificant changes.
fascinating
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Stu
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:25 pm
pierrre wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:36 pm
narrow pylons probably to bring pylon turbulence more to the center away from there the y-250 vortex works the cape, probably also not to disrupt the cape's forward opening angle
It also gets them into fresh territory for further gains next year, the structure of the nose has changed (new crash test, presumably), which nets them a token-less upgrade into 2021 at BOTH ends of the car.
This backs up previous suggestions that RB will be spending tokens at the rear of the car (to resolve this year’s balance issues).

Have Mercedes boxed themselves into a corner (no 2021 developments have been raced)? Or do they simply have so much of an advantage that it doesn’t matter?

https://soymotor.com/sites/default/file ... ymotor.jpg

Probably why they added #3 to the front wing inboard edge. Strengthen Y250, to reduce cape turbulence from affecting it. Along with nose tweak and enlarging the cape, and adding the slot to the trailing edge of the cape to further reduce drag and the turbulence it induces. It's really amazing all those small changes working in unison. How much the car was developed but to us it just looks like tiny almost insignificant changes.
Common sense is not as common as stupidity, but it is better to be uninformed than to be mis-informed...

seense
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Why didn't Alex use the new nose in the race? Can't be availability I assume; the new nose has been introduced a long time ago. Just driver preference?

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SiLo
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Stu wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:03 am
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:25 pm
pierrre wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:36 pm
narrow pylons probably to bring pylon turbulence more to the center away from there the y-250 vortex works the cape, probably also not to disrupt the cape's forward opening angle
It also gets them into fresh territory for further gains next year, the structure of the nose has changed (new crash test, presumably), which nets them a token-less upgrade into 2021 at BOTH ends of the car.
This backs up previous suggestions that RB will be spending tokens at the rear of the car (to resolve this year’s balance issues).

Have Mercedes boxed themselves into a corner (no 2021 developments have been raced)? Or do they simply have so much of an advantage that it doesn’t matter?

https://soymotor.com/sites/default/file ... ymotor.jpg

Probably why they added #3 to the front wing inboard edge. Strengthen Y250, to reduce cape turbulence from affecting it. Along with nose tweak and enlarging the cape, and adding the slot to the trailing edge of the cape to further reduce drag and the turbulence it induces. It's really amazing all those small changes working in unison. How much the car was developed but to us it just looks like tiny almost insignificant changes.
I think Mercedes will have plenty up their sleeve, but as regulations remain fairly similar there is always a convergence of teams.
Felipe Baby!

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:25 pm
pierrre wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:36 pm
narrow pylons probably to bring pylon turbulence more to the center away from there the y-250 vortex works the cape, probably also not to disrupt the cape's forward opening angle
Image

Probably why they added #3 to the front wing inboard edge. Strengthen Y250, to reduce cape turbulence from affecting it. Along with nose tweak and enlarging the cape, and adding the slot to the trailing edge of the cape to further reduce drag and the turbulence it induces. It's really amazing all those small changes working in unison. How much the car was developed but to us it just looks like tiny almost insignificant changes.


The biggest thing is see on that front wing is... And it takes a keen eye to see how the flow of design goes...

If you look closely you will see they wanted to get rid of the small metal fences that support the two lowest flaps to improve efficiency of the wing. To do this without the flaps colapsing on selves at speed they joined the end tips of the flap to the central section of the wing for support.
Shold make more downforce, less drag and a cleaner air flow coming off the front wing.
I expect many teams to follow this trick next year. It's really smart to bring this back to todays wing designs.

Image
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..

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Stu
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:53 am
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:25 pm
pierrre wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:36 pm
narrow pylons probably to bring pylon turbulence more to the center away from there the y-250 vortex works the cape, probably also not to disrupt the cape's forward opening angle
https://soymotor.com/sites/default/file ... ymotor.jpg

Probably why they added #3 to the front wing inboard edge. Strengthen Y250, to reduce cape turbulence from affecting it. Along with nose tweak and enlarging the cape, and adding the slot to the trailing edge of the cape to further reduce drag and the turbulence it induces. It's really amazing all those small changes working in unison. How much the car was developed but to us it just looks like tiny almost insignificant changes.


The biggest thing is see on that front wing is... And it takes a keen eye to see how the flow of design goes...

If you look closely you will see they wanted to get rid of the small metal fences that support the two lowest flaps to improve efficiency of the wing. To do this without the flaps colapsing on selves at speed they joined the end tips of the flap to the central section of the wing for support.
Shold make more downforce, less drag and a cleaner air flow coming off the front wing.
I expect many teams to follow this trick next year. It's really smart to bring this back to todays wing designs.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnBIJHyXMAA ... ame=medium
Very interesting! It looks as though it is allowing them to be very aggressive with the inboard end of the wing, which should amplify the Y250 vortex. That could be used to have an effect around the new rear floor cut.
Common sense is not as common as stupidity, but it is better to be uninformed than to be mis-informed...

TimW
TimW
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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It is the other way round, the first image is new, the second old. The old wing had the lower flap join to the mid section(more teams have this, e.g. viewtopic.php?f=12&t=28779&start=1155 ) Apparently they want the vortices of the extra tips.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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It is hard to objectively say that the vortex is stronger from looking at the image. So I did not comment on it. For all we know it could be the same.

But i am pretty sure when those structural fences are removed there is less obstruction to the wing and it should perform better.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..