Red Bull RB16

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Kingshark
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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I have read numerous posts from armchair experts who claim that the 2021 floor changes will hurt Red Bull significantly more than Mercedes. Their reasoning is that because Red Bull run more rake, it makes it more difficult to seal the floor.

However, as I understand it, Mercedes does have a longer wheelbase. The floor cuts begin 1800mm after the front tyre axel and end 175mm before the rear tyre axel. By virtue of being a longer car, Mercedes will lose more floor area.

Thoughts?

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etusch
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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I've read something says next year is good for redbull but rules for 22 are bad for redbull/high rake.
Whatever. It is a challenge for engineers and we will see which party will come up with better solution. If it is harder to seal it then working on it may open a better and innovative way to seal it. who knows.

ryaan2904
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Does anyone have any idea where Redbull is spending its tokens next year??

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lio007
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Very good summary by TheRace with quotes from Paul Monaghan and Pierre Wache:
https://the-race.com/formula-1/why-hist ... l-in-2020/
Last edited by lio007 on Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Big Tea
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:02 am
Does anyone have any idea where Redbull is spending its tokens next year??
Amazon?
(it's Xmas)
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So don't kick.

ryaan2904
ryaan2904
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Big Tea wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:52 pm
ryaan2904 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:02 am
Does anyone have any idea where Redbull is spending its tokens next year??
Amazon?
(it's Xmas)
Hehehe lol
Merry Christmas Everyone!!!

Dipesh1995
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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I've been looking for this footage since Turkey and have finally found it. At 0:21, you can clearly see the formation of the Y250 vortex and it's path. Playback speed of 0.25X works the best obv.


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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Dipesh1995 wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:11 pm
I've been looking for this footage since Turkey and have finally found it. At 0:21, you can clearly see the formation of the Y250 vortex and it's path. Playback speed of 0.25X works the best obv.

https://youtu.be/IR68jU6Fuz8
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My drunken rendition, seems those venetian blinds will be pretty important next year because of how much they affect the rear tire squirt.

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F1 bird brains still have some way to go to match these majestic bird brains. If only we could communicate with them.

Oh well, I'll put up with the "presents" they leave on my car for the knowledge they give me. It's a fair trade imo.

Here's my bird brained reasoning, if you have a very strong vortex(or vortecies in the case of the blinds) smacking the turbulent area of the tire, it's still increasing the pressure in that part of the tire. That makes the tire dead zone more attractive for any air flow(the tire dead zone is where the tire reverses direction, it is in line with the floor, and the outer section of the front wings). On top of that, the tire winglets are also reducing the pressure in the tire dead zone, further enhancing that area's attractivity to airflow. The rear wing endplates and coke bottle, as well as diffuser shape further help guide air there.

All those devices combined are using all sorts of peer pressure to encourage air into the diffuser, through the tire dead zone(squirt).

https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2020/ ... odium.html

You can see here a smokey CFD demonstration of how airflow goes around the rear tire and into the diffuser.

*1:22 in the video.

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You know what...I think next season is going to be WTF hilarious. Whoever takes advantage of this is going to have a seriously fast car.

Ferrari made a nice gain on their car by arching their lower bargeboard boomerang, so that it swept upwards along with the venetian blinds like the wing on the birdy.

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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One thing I noticed, Renault tries to generate extra downforce with their rear wing retraction, but wouldn't that increase the pressure on the under side of the main rear wing? What if that concept is inversed? Wouldn't that create a pressure reduction of the end plate flow field between the retraction and the rear wing? Why else would Red Bull be putting slots on the end plate if lowering the overall pressure gradient in that area wasn't beneficial for the rear wing?

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Until now RB has left their pretty neutral.

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Stu
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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godlameroso wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:51 am
One thing I noticed, Renault tries to generate extra downforce with their rear wing retraction, but wouldn't that increase the pressure on the under side of the main rear wing? What if that concept is inversed? Wouldn't that create a pressure reduction of the end plate flow field between the retraction and the rear wing? Why else would Red Bull be putting slots on the end plate if lowering the overall pressure gradient in that area wasn't beneficial for the rear wing?

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -det-1.jpg

Until now RB has left their pretty neutral.

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... st-c-1.jpg
Potentially (I do not have CFD eyes...), this could either be used to assist the rear brake duct winglets OR be used to generate a vortex (there is a bias to the construction) which could reduce pressure under the outer section of rear wing?
Common sense is not as common as stupidity, but it is better to be uninformed than to be mis-informed...

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Stu wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:27 am
godlameroso wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:51 am
One thing I noticed, Renault tries to generate extra downforce with their rear wing retraction, but wouldn't that increase the pressure on the under side of the main rear wing? What if that concept is inversed? Wouldn't that create a pressure reduction of the end plate flow field between the retraction and the rear wing? Why else would Red Bull be putting slots on the end plate if lowering the overall pressure gradient in that area wasn't beneficial for the rear wing?

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -det-1.jpg

Until now RB has left their pretty neutral.

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... st-c-1.jpg
Potentially (I do not have CFD eyes...), this could either be used to assist the rear brake duct winglets OR be used to generate a vortex (there is a bias to the construction) which could reduce pressure under the outer section of rear wing?
My reasoning was to reduce the pressure under the main plane of the rear wing. I figure the rear wing could use an efficiency boost. And the low pressure side is the more critical one (swan neck mounts) so may as well try to help it do its job.
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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Ok but in practice does it achieve that or merely raise the pressure at the edge of the underside of the rear wing? It's probably a good idea if you are trying to stall it at a certain speed.

But of course, you can't take my word for it, but what about the most dominant car of the season?

They turn their retraction inverse to the Renault.

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Another thing I noticed, the counter rotating vortices coming from the diffuser and the wastegates and exhaust are in a very good location. Each wastegate pipe can blow the edge of each of the diffuser vortecies driving their strength. The endplates on the rear wing can help this process. The vortecies rotate clockwise when seen from the rear of the car. They go up along the car vertical centerline, and come downward on the RW endplate side.
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Wouter
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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MPH: Has Red Bull finally nailed its high-rake concept?

Has Red Bull finally cracked the code in the fight with Mercedes? Or will it flatter to deceive once again?

Red Bull’s chief engineer Pierre Wache is convinced that their high-rake concept is better, that it was just the understanding of the aero problem around the new narrow nose concept that prevented them showing this sooner. He’s quite gung-ho about that view too: “We missed an opportunity because I think they [Mercedes] were beatable. If we’d found what we find now on the car, we’d beat them. I’m pissed off with that and I think we’re all on the same page.

“They did do a good job, to be fair, no DNF etc. But they are not everywhere perfect and I think we can find more performance than them, even with the engines as they were. They are beatable.”
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... ke-concept

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godlameroso
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Re: Red Bull RB16

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Maybe I have bad depth perception from a 2d picture but I could have sworn it's the trailing edge of the transition that's cambered down not the leading edge.

Nice to meet an actual aero guy.

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For clarity I'm talking about this part, it flicks up on the Renault, no one else does it, and the Renault is a very slippery car. I figured this had something to do with it.

By channeling air downwards and away from the underside of the main rear wing you in essence lower the pressure of the air flowing under the rear wing, increasing its performance, in theory.
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