Renault F1 R.S. 20

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FDD
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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:57 pm
FDD wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:49 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:12 pm


You can't stop oil burning, it's a feature of all piston engines. There's always some oil on the cylinder walls, the rings shear this oil, and aerates it as the piston travels up and down, and is dispersed by the quench zone, the area where the cylinder head meets the cylinder itself. This is defined by the head sealing and O-ring/head gasket, and general shape of the combustion chamber. The quench area is a big source of detonation because of the tendency for fuel and oil to mix in the quench area of the combustion chamber.

There's no way to stop oil burning due to the nature of piston engines, some oil will also enter the valve guides regardless of what you do.

Oil burns much slower than gasoline does, so when you burn oil, you increase the chances of low speed pre-ignition, which leads to the worst form of detonation, uncontrolled detonation.

You have choices, use oil that burns faster to avoid LSPI, which will naturally affect oil consumption, or additives in the oil that make oil less likely to combust, thus avoiding LSPI, or you change the rings, because the rings are what control piston sealing and oil scraping on the cylinder walls. You make stronger rings that scrape the cylinder walls, in turn you need stronger cylinder walls to cope with the added ring friction from being forced by the regulations to be tighter with oil control.

Then you invest money because you learn the way the rings sit in the piston has huge influence on detonation, and your hard AF piston rings don't seal well with your expensive AF piston treatment which while making the ring lands hard AF has poor sealing due to the porosity of the material. So you invest tons of money in getting the ring grooves to sit perfectly flat because it helps ring sealing massively. But now you have more power(more cylinder pressure pushing the rings into the cylinder wall) and more wear on the piston skirt(more thrust forces), so you have to make even stronger pistons, and cylinder walls, because you're not allowed to burn as much oil as before.

How do you remedy this? Better lubricants, of course, mechanically how do you fix this? Oh you know just change block architecture to increase rod ratio, which means new crank, new rods, new cylinder head, new timing gears. Typically increasing rod ratio lowers thrust forces, of course neither extreme is good for various reasons, but finding the sweet spot takes a fair bit of trial and error even with current simulations.

All this and about 5 months have gone by and you've spent over $100 million on test engines, new tooling, man hours, logistics, etc. Meanwhile the same bloody engines are running on track for the whole season.
https://motorsport.tech/formula-1/oil-b ... %20a%20lap.
Oil burning still happens. They allow up to a liter of oil per race distance.
You are absolutely right, but previously they burn far more

SmallSoldier
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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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Some “natural” flowviz on the RS20

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Morteza
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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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Renault testing a 2021 floor during FP today
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Via Motorsport.com
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selvam_e2002
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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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today Renault also confirmed to go with freeze if FIA prepone 2026 rule change . I don't believe it! if they have freeze, then we will see same line up and Mercedes can win another 4 wdc and wcc. will make the race boring.

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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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where the 2 token going to be used for 2021 car?

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ScrewCaptain27
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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:56 pm
where the 2 token going to be used for 2021 car?
Cooling system I think
"Stupid people do stupid things. Smart people outsmart each other, then themselves."
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selvam_e2002
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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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ScrewCaptain27 wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:37 pm
selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:56 pm
where the 2 token going to be used for 2021 car?
Cooling system I think
Thanks! any specific reason for spending on cooling system?

if they do that, would they able to get more performance out from engine and power unit?

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ScrewCaptain27
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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:26 am
ScrewCaptain27 wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:37 pm
selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:56 pm
where the 2 token going to be used for 2021 car?
Cooling system I think
Thanks! any specific reason for spending on cooling system?

if they do that, would they able to get more performance out from engine and power unit?
Possibly, or it could be that they simply have a smaller and more efficient package which will give aero benefits.
"Stupid people do stupid things. Smart people outsmart each other, then themselves."
- Serj Tankian

selvam_e2002
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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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stan_french
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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:31 pm
New engine for 2021!

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/75867/re ... years.html
Now that you say that, it makes totally sense. Originally they had planned a budget for next the 2020 chassis and just car in general, but instead, with the tokens systems, they'll be using it to fully utilize their engine. Also follows the rumors that they may want to use their tokens on the cooling systems.

I am intrigued to know what the dyno suggests in terms of performance, but I don't think we'll find out because it seems Renault is pretty secretive about this type of stuff.

On a side note that midfield is gonna be insanely tight, and with a new engine, and the midseason development rate they carry, things might not look too shabby for next season.

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RedNEO
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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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I suspected they would in the team thread. It just makes sense since this engine was meant to be released in 2021 and what they were spending there tokens on. It’s good news though because everyone is upgrading there engines so Renault couldn’t afford to get left behind.
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:24 am
I don’t really see it as a knee jerk since this was supposed to go on the car in 2021 anyway. Remy Taffin implied that this next gen PU will have a completely different cooling system and strategies and that it can not work with the 2020 cooling.

And what is Renault spending its tokens on? Cooling

stan_french
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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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RedNEO wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:22 pm
I suspected they would in the team thread. It just makes sense since this engine was meant to be released in 2021 and what they were spending there tokens on. It’s good news though because everyone is upgrading there engines so Renault couldn’t afford to get left behind.
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:24 am
I don’t really see it as a knee jerk since this was supposed to go on the car in 2021 anyway. Remy Taffin implied that this next gen PU will have a completely different cooling system and strategies and that it can not work with the 2020 cooling.

And what is Renault spending its tokens on? Cooling

Just curious if you have a source for this all new cooling system strategy?

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RedNEO
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Re: Renault F1 R.S. 20

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stan_french wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:30 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:22 pm
I suspected they would in the team thread. It just makes sense since this engine was meant to be released in 2021 and what they were spending there tokens on. It’s good news though because everyone is upgrading there engines so Renault couldn’t afford to get left behind.
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:24 am
I don’t really see it as a knee jerk since this was supposed to go on the car in 2021 anyway. Remy Taffin implied that this next gen PU will have a completely different cooling system and strategies and that it can not work with the 2020 cooling.

And what is Renault spending its tokens on? Cooling

Just curious if you have a source for this all new cooling system strategy?
No source, that bit was just me speculating based on him saying this years engine was just an evolution compared to 2021’s. Honestly if they are using the tokens on cooling they could just be doing it to tighten up the body work and not it being due to a brand new cooling system. We shall find out soon based on the tokens they use.

Here’s Remi talking at the start of the year about how they planned to test out parts of the new engine for 2021. This was before the engine freeze.

https://thejudge13.com/2020/02/24/renau ... write-off/