Racing Point RP20

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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Morteza
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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Otmar confirms that they used photos and a bit of intuition to copy the Mercedes.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..

PowerandtheGlory
PowerandtheGlory
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:24 pm
Otmar confirms that they used photos and a bit of intuition to copy the Mercedes.
Of course you did, and apart from a photo side on to the merc car- you also got a photo from underneath and behind the bargeboard and under the Front wing and a photo from all angles of the rear suspension... What a load of Tosh
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

cplchanb
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:37 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:24 pm
Otmar confirms that they used photos and a bit of intuition to copy the Mercedes.
Of course you did, and apart from a photo side on to the merc car- you also got a photo from underneath and behind the bargeboard and under the Front wing and a photo from all angles of the rear suspension... What a load of Tosh
you do seem to forget that these people have exponentially more access to view other teams' cars than you would ever have in your lifetime as a normal muggle from the grandstands. Not to mention they use the same factory windtunnel so "pictures" are more easily to come by

PowerandtheGlory
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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cplchanb wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:41 pm
PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:37 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:24 pm
Otmar confirms that they used photos and a bit of intuition to copy the Mercedes.
Of course you did, and apart from a photo side on to the merc car- you also got a photo from underneath and behind the bargeboard and under the Front wing and a photo from all angles of the rear suspension... What a load of Tosh
you do seem to forget that these people have exponentially more access to view other teams' cars than you would ever have in your lifetime as a normal muggle from the grandstands. Not to mention they use the same factory windtunnel so "pictures" are more easily to come by
Fine i'll take the bait...

I'm not forgetting - merely using photographs (and intuition?!?!) to re-create something as detailed as a bargeboard area which includes fully CAD 3D modelled parts and parts that cannot only be viewed with sections of the bargeboard area removed...!!??
AND get them perfect as per the photos
AND get the exact distances between sections when viewed
AND know exactly the thickness of the stress/load bearing parts and the mounting points (which are hidden) to connect to the chassis Tub (which you just to happen to be using)
AND get a photo of the areas of the car which you cannot see from 'any humanbeing camera angle..
AND to test the "newly designed car'' last week with no obvious structural damage to parts they had to 'copy' from photos...
- I'm actually staggered at your naivety
Hashtag-Mugglelife
Drops mic and walks off..... into the sunset.... with an icecream :wink:
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nzjrs
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:58 pm

Fine i'll take the bait...

I'm not forgetting - merely using photographs (and intuition?!?!) to re-create something as detailed as a bargeboard area which includes fully CAD 3D modelled parts and parts that cannot only be viewed with sections of the bargeboard area removed...!!??
AND get them perfect as per the photos
AND get the exact distances between sections when viewed
AND know exactly the thickness of the stress/load bearing parts and the mounting points (which are hidden) to connect to the chassis Tub (which you just to happen to be using)
AND get a photo of the areas of the car which you cannot see from 'any humanbeing camera angle..
AND to test the "newly designed car'' last week with no obvious structural damage to parts they had to 'copy' from photos...
- I'm actually staggered at your naivety
Hashtag-Mugglelife
Drops mic and walks off..... into the sunset.... with an icecream :wink:
When you put it like that, it must be impossible to design bargeboards with intuition and without photos! :wink:

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:37 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:24 pm
Otmar confirms that they used photos and a bit of intuition to copy the Mercedes.
Of course you did, and apart from a photo side on to the merc car- you also got a photo from underneath and behind the bargeboard and under the Front wing and a photo from all angles of the rear suspension... What a load of Tosh
You don't understand. you really don't understand how skilled these people are. They don't need to see every detail nor every piece of the jigsaw to complete the picture. It's not like they are designing an engine - It's all external surfaces. These are immensely intelligent and experienced engineers, they already know how the different flow structures work and what is required, they just need a few hints to see where to place what.
.. OG.. OG.. OG.. OG..

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jjn9128
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:58 pm
This tin foil hat stuff has to stop. McLaren were fined $100m and excluded from the championship for copying Ferrari - and that's before the listed parts section was added to the rules (I know that's a case of corporate espionage so it's slightly different). But IF Mercedes had given Force Point India Racing access to their CAD to copy the non-listed parts you can bet the FIA would come down pretty damn hard on them. For Racing Point the risk is maybe worth it to get some decent results and inside knowledge of the big team, even though it doesn't carry forward to next year, but for Mercedes there's no chance they're going to risk the bad PR, big fines, or expulsion from the championship to help a midfield team maybe get some podiums.
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Big Tea
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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Would that be photo as in photocopy ?
:D
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PowerandtheGlory
PowerandtheGlory
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:08 pm
PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:58 pm
This tin foil hat stuff has to stop. McLaren were fined $100m and excluded from the championship for copying Ferrari - and that's before the listed parts section was added to the rules (I know that's a case of corporate espionage so it's slightly different). But IF Mercedes had given Force Point India Racing access to their CAD to copy the non-listed parts you can bet the FIA would come down pretty damn hard on them. For Racing Point the risk is maybe worth it to get some decent results and inside knowledge of the big team, even though it doesn't carry forward to next year, but for Mercedes there's no chance they're going to risk the bad PR, big fines, or expulsion from the championship to help a midfield team maybe get some podiums.
We'll see about that, currently Merc's silence is especially golden... I mean i cant see any advantage to Merc of having a Really quick Merc type car in 3-4-5 places... hmmmm (wink wink, nudge nudge, let Lewis past in Monaco - he's in a difference race to you- coded radio message)
Last edited by PowerandtheGlory on Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

PowerandtheGlory
PowerandtheGlory
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:07 pm
PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:37 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:24 pm
Otmar confirms that they used photos and a bit of intuition to copy the Mercedes.
Of course you did, and apart from a photo side on to the merc car- you also got a photo from underneath and behind the bargeboard and under the Front wing and a photo from all angles of the rear suspension... What a load of Tosh
You don't understand. you really don't understand how skilled these people are. They don't need to see every detail nor every piece of the jigsaw to complete the picture. It's not like they are designing an engine - It's all external surfaces. These are immensely intelligent and experienced engineers, they already know how the different flow structures work and what is required, they just need a few hints to see where to place what.
I agree they are supremely intelligent, and they have access to wind tunnels and so forth.. but you cannot sit there and listen to the TP saying it was based on photos and intuition...
These designers DON'T WORK THAT WAY... ! A family member of mine works in automotive engineering on large scale national projects... to start a project like that from blank sheet with photos only and to the scale and complexity is impossible - there is some handover of knowledge, you cannot go from blank page with photos to that... with perfect and with 100% working correlation - you have had HELP somehow...

Edit- Sorry about the CAPITALS ..!!
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

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Racer X
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:08 pm
PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:58 pm
but for Mercedes there's no chance they're going to risk the bad PR, big fines, or expulsion from the championship to help a midfield team maybe get some podiums.
So then I doubt that Mercedes has done anything illegal specially if the Technical Director of Pink Mercedes is going around so confidently talking about how they copied Silver Mercedes then i'm sure everything is perfectly legal.
RedBull Racing MAX//PEREZ

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Big Tea
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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Can I get a C Class RP?
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PowerandtheGlory
PowerandtheGlory
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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Racer X wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:25 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:08 pm
PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:58 pm
but for Mercedes there's no chance they're going to risk the bad PR, big fines, or expulsion from the championship to help a midfield team maybe get some podiums.
So then I doubt that Mercedes has done anything illegal specially if the Technical Director of Pink Mercedes is going around so confidently talking about how they copied Silver Mercedes then i'm sure everything is perfectly legal.
The PR is the silly thing, they have completely failed to manage the situation.
It started off as - 'adopting a similar concept' and its gone full spectrum
to 'we copied it from photos and intuition'
Its all a bit Basil Fawlty...
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

PowerandtheGlory
PowerandtheGlory
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Re: Racing Point RP20

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:29 pm
Can I get a C Class RP?
No but you can get an 'Aston' with a Merc engine ..............vantage anyone??........... :lol: :lol: :lol:

You could get 2 more MERC astons next year =D>
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn