Ferrari SF1000

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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subcritical71
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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outsid3r wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:24 pm


Video on whats going on with the gearbox - basically a repetition of what was already said here. Apparently Ferrari already has a plan on how to solve this issue and that is by adding more layers of carbonfibre to case and with a different weave

Edit: they also said that the movement was so tiny was only picked up by the sensors and that the drivers didn't notice. But they plan to rectify it also because of reliability issues because it puts the gear stalks under higher pressures
... and only 4 mounting positions between the PU and gearbox on the test rig.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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subcritical71 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:46 pm
outsid3r wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:24 pm


Video on whats going on with the gearbox - basically a repetition of what was already said here. Apparently Ferrari already has a plan on how to solve this issue and that is by adding more layers of carbonfibre to case and with a different weave

Edit: they also said that the movement was so tiny was only picked up by the sensors and that the drivers didn't notice. But they plan to rectify it also because of reliability issues because it puts the gear stalks under higher pressures
... and only 4 mounting positions between the PU and gearbox on the test rig.
Chrono GP magazine (video) clearly shows the ‘load-bearing outer gearbox structure’ that takes the suspension loads and not the gearbox proper. The gearbox proper internals they show is not in use anymore by any of the present formula 1 gearbox manufacturers. And they at Chrono GP went one better than Franco Nugnes as they upped the 065 version 2 power gains from his claimed 15 to 20 hp.
As to the number of studs mounting the gearbox outer load-bearing structure to the engine. Refer to (FIA formula 1 2020 technical regulations 5.3.8) the numbers in brackets with each Y/Z location mandated refers to the number of studs that ‘must’ be used.

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subcritical71
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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saviour stivala wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:17 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:46 pm
... and only 4 mounting positions between the PU and gearbox on the test rig.
Chrono GP magazine (video) clearly shows the ‘load-bearing outer gearbox structure’ that takes the suspension loads and not the gearbox proper. The gearbox proper internals they show is not in use anymore by any of the present formula 1 gearbox manufacturers. And they at Chrono GP went one better than Franco Nugnes as they upped the 065 version 2 power gains from his claimed 15 to 20 hp.
As to the number of studs mounting the gearbox outer load-bearing structure to the engine. Refer to (FIA formula 1 2020 technical regulations 5.3.8) the numbers in brackets with each Y/Z location mandated refers to the number of studs that ‘must’ be used.
I’m glad you understood what I meant by gearbox, what do the rules say about where the suspension pieces are mounted? :-$ While I don’t agree with your interpretation of the rules, It seems your interpretation is off from Ferrari’s as well. It’s been shown in several posts but this seems to be the clearest indication so far that 4 studs are used to mount the gearbox to the power unit and not the maximum allowed of 6. It would be an engineering miss to get all this test dynamics data while not using the same mounting system as used in the ‘production’ car.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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subcritical71 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 9:47 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:17 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:46 pm
... and only 4 mounting positions between the PU and gearbox on the test rig.
Chrono GP magazine (video) clearly shows the ‘load-bearing outer gearbox structure’ that takes the suspension loads and not the gearbox proper. The gearbox proper internals they show is not in use anymore by any of the present formula 1 gearbox manufacturers. And they at Chrono GP went one better than Franco Nugnes as they upped the 065 version 2 power gains from his claimed 15 to 20 hp.
As to the number of studs mounting the gearbox outer load-bearing structure to the engine. Refer to (FIA formula 1 2020 technical regulations 5.3.8) the numbers in brackets with each Y/Z location mandated refers to the number of studs that ‘must’ be used.
I’m glad you understood what I meant by gearbox, what do the rules say about where the suspension pieces are mounted? :-$ While I don’t agree with your interpretation of the rules, It seems your interpretation is off from Ferrari’s as well. It’s been shown in several posts but this seems to be the clearest indication so far that 4 studs are used to mount the gearbox to the power unit and not the maximum allowed of 6. It would be an engineering miss to get all this test dynamics data while not using the same mounting system as used in the ‘production’ car.
What test dynamic data? It’s not like what Chrono GP showed (CAE testing) was taken directly from FERRARI actually does and use (FERRARI property). In fact nothing in that video-computer rendering actually is used by FERRARI, and that includes all of the gearbox ‘proper’ internals, items which have been out of use by a couple of years now. What they Chrono GP did was gobbled together pictures and material to explain a point.
Re the gearbox mounting points (centre of studs) lies on one vertical plane parallel to C-C and are located at y100/z15 (2). Y150/z140 (2). And y255/z345 (2). And all must be used: (2) (2) and (2) =6.

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jjn9128
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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saviour stivala wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:17 pm
As to the number of studs mounting the gearbox outer load-bearing structure to the engine. Refer to (FIA formula 1 2020 technical regulations 5.3.8) the numbers in brackets with each Y/Z location mandated refers to the number of studs that ‘must’ be used.
5.3 refers to the power unit not the gearbox case. The power unit must have all 6 studs but the gearbox does not have any such stipulation - details of the transmission is in section 9.5, it means any gearbox should theoretically mate to any power unit. In the 2022 regulations there's even a stipulation that the power unit can have either 4 or 6 mounting points for the transmission.
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saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:20 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:17 pm
As to the number of studs mounting the gearbox outer load-bearing structure to the engine. Refer to (FIA formula 1 2020 technical regulations 5.3.8) the numbers in brackets with each Y/Z location mandated refers to the number of studs that ‘must’ be used.
5.3 refers to the power unit not the gearbox case. The power unit must have all 6 studs but the gearbox does not have any such stipulation - details of the transmission is in section 9.5, it means any gearbox should theoretically mate to any power unit. In the 2022 regulations there's even a stipulation that the power unit can have either 4 or 6 mounting points for the transmission.
It is actually 5.3.8 which states that ‘all 6 studs' on each mounting side ‘all studs must be used’. This is the present 2020 regulations. Why complicate the discussion with what to come in 2 years time?.

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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I m sure this is at least 2016 gearbox. Its bulky and definitely not post 2017 era gearbox with bigger difuzor.

Image
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subcritical71
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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This has been discussed on at least one other thread (viewtopic.php?p=897512#p897512, viewtopic.php?p=897552#p897552). The nice thing about the pictures is there is no interpretation of the rules necessary. The photos lay bare the details we are looking for and confirm my, and others, interpretation of the rules. So I stand by my observation that several teams are using 4 mounting locations for their gearbox. Ferrari, Mercedes and thanks to the Chrono GP video it looks like Red Bull (video above shows a "2014-RB1-0028" label on the base block)

Edit: I have seen in an official Mercedes video that the ‘2014-RB1-0028’ base block is being used on the suspension rig, therefore more than likely theirs vs Red Bull.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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New gearbox coming for Austria. More rigid. The old one was designed on the limit for aero purposes so very slender but it lost rigidity in two axes. The upgraded one was made thicker in places to alleviate this.

New engine that is said to regain 15hp. By my estimates they lost maybe 45 peak hp for the spec they had in testing, and I don't think it has anything to do with sanctions but a new development. One step back to go two steps forward sort of thing. Go hard bwfore the engines are froze.

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Moore77
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:49 pm
New gearbox coming for Austria. More rigid. The old one was designed on the limit for aero purposes so very slender but it lost rigidity in two axes. The upgraded one was made thicker in places to alleviate this.

New engine that is said to regain 15hp. By my estimates they lost maybe 45 peak hp for the spec they had in testing, and I don't think it has anything to do with sanctions but a new development. One step back to go two steps forward sort of thing. Go hard bwfore the engines are froze.
Do you have a link to the 15hp?

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Moore77 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:58 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:49 pm
New gearbox coming for Austria. More rigid. The old one was designed on the limit for aero purposes so very slender but it lost rigidity in two axes. The upgraded one was made thicker in places to alleviate this.

New engine that is said to regain 15hp. By my estimates they lost maybe 45 peak hp for the spec they had in testing, and I don't think it has anything to do with sanctions but a new development. One step back to go two steps forward sort of thing. Go hard bwfore the engines are froze.
Do you have a link to the 15hp?
It's from Motosport Italy. Which doesn't have the highest batting average out there, but it is what it is.


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jumpingfish
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:49 pm
New engine that is said to regain 15hp. By my estimates they lost maybe 45 peak hp for the spec they had in testing, and I don't think it has anything to do with sanctions but a new development. One step back to go two steps forward sort of thing. Go hard bwfore the engines are froze.
Franco Nugnes had written the article about +15h.p. by 01 march 2020.
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... 06362/amp/
Ferrari did not redo the engine with a new project from scratch, but it evolved the unit criticized last year: the 065 will show up in Melbourne with fifteen more horses thanks to a more pushed hybrid strategy that should lead to savings in gasoline and with a view to the future in a reduction of emissions.
If we can trust him then Ferrari had developed their engine not only by 01march, but much earlier (time that need to develope the engine and time we give to let Nugnes know about this inside info and write the article) and therefore it couldnot be the development during 1 week after these testings in winter.
Then, -45h.p. is it the new weaker engine created for 2020 and used during tests or is it the 2019 one? Or -45 because turned off/sandbagging for longer testings without reliability problems?
I see Nugnes repeats words about +15h.p. in every article about SF1000. He wrote +15h.p. for engine 065/1 in Australia, now we see +15h.p. in articles dated 19-21 may about 065/2 Image

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Moore77
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:17 am
Moore77 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:58 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:49 pm
New gearbox coming for Austria. More rigid. The old one was designed on the limit for aero purposes so very slender but it lost rigidity in two axes. The upgraded one was made thicker in places to alleviate this.

New engine that is said to regain 15hp. By my estimates they lost maybe 45 peak hp for the spec they had in testing, and I don't think it has anything to do with sanctions but a new development. One step back to go two steps forward sort of thing. Go hard bwfore the engines are froze.
Do you have a link to the 15hp?
It's from Motosport Italy. Which doesn't have the highest batting average out there, but it is what it is.

https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status ... 46720?s=20
That article does not state anywhere about 15hp gain. It simply talks about SF1000 being 2 to 3 tenths faster.

toraabe
toraabe
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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They are probably facing the same problems Mercedes faced last year.

nemanja
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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