Mercedes W11

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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henry
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:17 pm
The tire is rolling over because the sidewall isn't stiff enough for the load it is generating. Decrease grip and you may increase sliding, but you'll minimize the load and deformation. See Darren Heath's photos (scroll with the arrows):



Remember, force alone causes heat, independent of friction (which is a whole other component). This is how glacier move, the overlying weight means the water at the ground / glacier interface doesn't freeze (basal sliding).

A high downforce set up will warm the tires up alone (to some degree) in a straight line independent of cornering.
Good pictures, Thanks, particularly the second last image. It’s worth remembering that the tyre goes from the shape at the top to the shape at the bottom 30 to 40 times a second. As it enters and leaves the deformed shape at the bottom it inevitably scrubs across the road.
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Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Re: Mercedes W11

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For sure.

Another point is the reason soft tires overheat and chunk over hard tires is because they simply produce more grip and do more work.

Hard tires have less mechanical grip, may slide more, but they are doing less work. In my experience, soft vs hard compounds all want to be around the same temperature regardless, it's just a matter of how quickly and how hot they get.

Anyone ever touch a dedicated rain tire? They feel like a sponge, and between that (being super soft) and the tread blocks moving on a drying track is what causes them to overheat and chunk.

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GPR-A
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:38 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:22 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:10 pm

They can rip a bit of downforce off, as their competitors are miles behind and avoid putting so much load in tyres and still be ahead! Induce a bit of understeer and go slightly slower through the corners, but it would allow them a bit more straight line speed, which they would anyway do in Spa and Monza. That is much more easier to do, while they build better solution to better manage the tyres with their full downforce package, if the speculation of that article is indeed true. I have stopped believing some of these hollywood paparazzi guys, masquerading as F1 journalists, long ago.

In the recent debrief, Shovlin just says they were slower as they needed to manage the tyres, but doesn't actually go in detail about what exact car problem made them slower.
Hi GPR-A!

Generally, I like your posts and this time you are right: my above statements are all speculations ...

But I have to remind you that it`s not so simple to trim some DF levels at the back coz you need to compensate at the front axle in order to get a balanced car ... unfortunately, this action will also trim diffuser DF levels which will decrease further their rear DF levels ...

So having to change their optimum aero platform this could lead to a negative domino effect, don`t you think? :D ...
Would removing down force not just increase slip angles and not only ware the rubber but (friction) add more heat?
Rear tyres more so, which are where the damage was last week?
Look at what happened in Silverstone these past 2 races. Ferrari came with a Monza wing and later Red Bull went in the same direction. Silverstone was supposedly one of those high downforce and high power circuits, but with these new generation cars, there is so much downforce coming from floor and barge boards, they decided to go with slim wings and yet be highly competitive and RB won a race.

So, while Mercedes has done a great job of adding more downforce, they will be constrained by the tyres that doesn't take that extra load. Probably, these 2019 tyres, were just good for 2019 Mercedes, which was W10. Look at RP, which let's assume the exact clone. They didn't have such problems, which tells me that, these tyres were at limit with W10.

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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:55 pm

...

Hard tires have less mechanical grip, may slide more, but they are doing less work. In my experience, soft vs hard compounds all want to be around the same temperature regardless, it's just a matter of how quickly and how hot they get.

...
Image
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
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Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Re: Mercedes W11

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atanatizante wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:39 pm
Hoffman900 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:55 pm

...

Hard tires have less mechanical grip, may slide more, but they are doing less work. In my experience, soft vs hard compounds all want to be around the same temperature regardless, it's just a matter of how quickly and how hot they get.

...
http://postimg.cc/8F4rdzWP
So the C2 and C3 are essentially the same, which jives with my experience in amateur series (medium vs. hard, which are relative descriptions, kind of like the old "race camshaft vs street camshaft" moniker :lol: ), and look at how each performed. The higher mechanical grip from the C3 produced more heat, thus lead to tire failure earlier.

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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes W11

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:11 pm
...
This is usually because that segment of tread surface is doing a disproportionate amount of the work.
...
From my understanding, there are at least 3 factors for this blistering behaviour: wear, track temperature and contact pressure as Merc`s tyre specialist says here:

"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

dans79
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Re: Mercedes W11

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atanatizante wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:12 pm
dans79 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:11 pm
...
This is usually because that segment of tread surface is doing a disproportionate amount of the work.
...
From my understanding, there are at least 3 factors for this blistering behaviour: wear, track temperature and contact pressure as Merc`s tyre specialist says here:

What he said aligns with what i said, it's just worded differently.
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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Barcelona (via Motorsport.com)
Image
Last edited by Morteza on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Morteza wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:49 pm
Barcelona
https://www.motorsport-total.com/bilder ... 43_mst.jpg
In my best Dundee voice, “Now that’s a wing.”

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W11

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zibby43 wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:36 pm
Morteza wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:49 pm
Barcelona
https://www.motorsport-total.com/bilder ... 43_mst.jpg
In my best Dundee voice, “Now that’s a wing.”


:wink: :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:00 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:36 pm
Morteza wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:49 pm
Barcelona
https://www.motorsport-total.com/bilder ... 43_mst.jpg
In my best Dundee voice, “Now that’s a wing.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMS2VnDveP8

:wink: :lol:
That was great. I hadn't seen that before. =D>

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Image

Image

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F1Krof
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Any Upgrades yet? Does anybody spot any change?
Wroom wroom

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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes W11

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F1Krof wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:55 am
Any Upgrades yet? Does anybody spot any change?
Besides solutions for cooling the rear tyres, they must have some updates for the slow corners had they didn`t bring them already at Silverstone 2 ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Does anyone get some rim wheel pictures from FP1? I heard they`ve got bigger heat sink for this race ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus