Mercedes W11

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
bosyber
bosyber
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Re: Mercedes W11

Post

zibby43 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:21 am
While looking at this RW comparison from Gary Anderson/The Race, I noticed that the bodywork at the rear of the sidepods is more open compared to previous weeks.

This is something Matthew Somerfield picked up on, and I agree with his assessment.

https://cdn.the-race.com/wp-content/upl ... erc-RW.jpg
Yep, sure looks like it. Maybe the new PU and the large amount of on-throttle here (and at Monza) asked for more cooling from the engine?

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

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bosyber wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:23 am
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:21 am
While looking at this RW comparison from Gary Anderson/The Race, I noticed that the bodywork at the rear of the sidepods is more open compared to previous weeks.

This is something Matthew Somerfield picked up on, and I agree with his assessment.

https://cdn.the-race.com/wp-content/upl ... erc-RW.jpg
Yep, sure looks like it. Maybe the new PU and the large amount of on-throttle here (and at Monza) asked for more cooling from the engine?
Think that is definitely relevant. Coupled with the fact that the PU is probably going to be working a bit harder in race trim going forward from Monza.

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Moore77
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Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: Mercedes W11

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zibby43 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:48 am
bosyber wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:23 am
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:21 am
While looking at this RW comparison from Gary Anderson/The Race, I noticed that the bodywork at the rear of the sidepods is more open compared to previous weeks.

This is something Matthew Somerfield picked up on, and I agree with his assessment.

https://cdn.the-race.com/wp-content/upl ... erc-RW.jpg
Yep, sure looks like it. Maybe the new PU and the large amount of on-throttle here (and at Monza) asked for more cooling from the engine?
Think that is definitely relevant. Coupled with the fact that the PU is probably going to be working a bit harder in race trim going forward from Monza.
I see different changes here. The side pod exit shape is narrower (yellow circle and blue line), while it is raised (red circle), which appears to be bulged. In the yellow circle, you see more open area, compared to previous one.

Image
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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes W11

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This is quite a big update then, barge boards, engine covers, floor, nose winglets, sidepod inlets...
Felipe Baby!

holeindalip
holeindalip
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Re: Mercedes W11

Post

zibby43 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:21 am
While looking at this RW comparison from Gary Anderson/The Race, I noticed that the bodywork at the rear of the sidepods (new specification on the right) is more open compared to previous weeks.

Really stands out in this comparison shot. Interesting that we see the bodywork opened up despite the much cooler temperatures. Anticipating running the engine harder in the race going forward?

This is something Matthew Somerfield picked up on, and I agree with his assessment.

https://cdn.the-race.com/wp-content/upl ... erc-RW.jpg

Thanks for the side by side and, definitely enlarged sidepods and outlets, Imo I don't think they could have done this in time for the upcoming one engine mode directive. This update had to have been in the pipeline for a bit at least....

mkay
mkay
3
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 8:30 pm

Re: Mercedes W11

Post

bosyber wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:23 am
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:21 am
While looking at this RW comparison from Gary Anderson/The Race, I noticed that the bodywork at the rear of the sidepods is more open compared to previous weeks.

This is something Matthew Somerfield picked up on, and I agree with his assessment.

https://cdn.the-race.com/wp-content/upl ... erc-RW.jpg
Yep, sure looks like it. Maybe the new PU and the large amount of on-throttle here (and at Monza) asked for more cooling from the engine?
Not sure how you can see that considering the two photos aren’t taken from the same angle.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

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holeindalip wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:28 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:21 am
While looking at this RW comparison from Gary Anderson/The Race, I noticed that the bodywork at the rear of the sidepods (new specification on the right) is more open compared to previous weeks.

Really stands out in this comparison shot. Interesting that we see the bodywork opened up despite the much cooler temperatures. Anticipating running the engine harder in the race going forward?

This is something Matthew Somerfield picked up on, and I agree with his assessment.

https://cdn.the-race.com/wp-content/upl ... erc-RW.jpg

Thanks for the side by side and, definitely enlarged sidepods and outlets, Imo I don't think they could have done this in time for the upcoming one engine mode directive. This update had to have been in the pipeline for a bit at least....
Good point! I definitely agree with that. Has to be circuit-specific then, I guess?

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Nicolas Carpentiers wrote:Three fins have been added in Spa, in addition to the three vertical deflectors already put in Barcelona two weeks ago (that I did not notice then). The most forward three, marked with the white arrows, are there since Austria.
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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Applying eye-cfd, it appears they're setting up a vortex with the white-arrowed VGs. The red VGs then reinforce the vortex and also, crucially, direct it outwards or rather it stops the vortex being pulled in with the airflow as the coke-bottle narrows. I would then guess the yellow VGs are aimed at sending the vortex outboard around the rear tyre.

This is "sealing the floor" by running a vortex along the upper edge of the floor to help prevent air flowing from the side. The vortex "sucks" the poor airflow and reduces influx on the bottom edge of the floor.

As said, this is all eye-cfd based on nothing more than hand waving. :lol:
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zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:13 pm
Applying eye-cfd, it appears they're setting up a vortex with the white-arrowed VGs. The red VGs then reinforce the vortex and also, crucially, direct it outwards or rather it stops the vortex being pulled in with the airflow as the coke-bottle narrows. I would then guess the yellow VGs are aimed at sending the vortex outboard around the rear tyre.

This is "sealing the floor" by running a vortex along the upper edge of the floor to help prevent air flowing from the side. The vortex "sucks" the poor airflow and reduces influx on the bottom edge of the floor.

As said, this is all eye-cfd based on nothing more than hand waving. :lol:
Think you're onto something, as all of these effects help generate more efficient downforce. Think the update was aimed at being even kinder on the tires, which would then allow the car to utilize more of its pace in the race without chewing through them

In AMuS' post-race analysis today, a Merc engineer reported:

"Our aero upgrade for race distances worked as the wind tunnel promised. Red Bull was closer on one-lap pace, but lost more time on us in the race trim. It usually works the other way round."

mkay
mkay
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Mark Hughes stating that Merc went higher DF in part because they can’t get adequate performance out of their low downforce package, and that RB would have likely been a lot closer had they gone lower DF (as they have a comparatively better package).

This has somewhat been echoed by Shovlin in the post race debrief, actually. Team needs to dig deep over the coming week to come up with something otherwise Monza could be troublesome, especially with the new FIA directive on engine modes.

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Moore77
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Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: Mercedes W11

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So, it's safe to conclude that the upgrades have worked as expected. That car was a monster in Sector 2 yesterday with Hamilton, while being an almost match in Sector 1.

It's strange to see that, Mercedes is losing time in the last chicane, which used to be the car's strongest suite. The team has been talking about improving slow corner speed. But this one was way too far. They were 3 to 4 tenths slower, just in that chicane.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

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Moore77
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Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:03 am

Re: Mercedes W11

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zibby43 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:13 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:13 pm
Applying eye-cfd, it appears they're setting up a vortex with the white-arrowed VGs. The red VGs then reinforce the vortex and also, crucially, direct it outwards or rather it stops the vortex being pulled in with the airflow as the coke-bottle narrows. I would then guess the yellow VGs are aimed at sending the vortex outboard around the rear tyre.

This is "sealing the floor" by running a vortex along the upper edge of the floor to help prevent air flowing from the side. The vortex "sucks" the poor airflow and reduces influx on the bottom edge of the floor.

As said, this is all eye-cfd based on nothing more than hand waving. :lol:
Think you're onto something, as all of these effects help generate more efficient downforce. Think the update was aimed at being even kinder on the tires, which would then allow the car to utilize more of its pace in the race without chewing through them

In AMuS' post-race analysis today, a Merc engineer reported:

"Our aero upgrade for race distances worked as the wind tunnel promised. Red Bull was closer on one-lap pace, but lost more time on us in the race trim. It usually works the other way round."
They must be having a good idea as to why that has changed. :)

Why is it that they had exact same top speed of 327 kph in each of the qualifying segments (Q1, Q2, Q3)? Saw that on live timing replay on F1 app.

Unlike upto Silverstone 2, where Bono used to tell Hamilton to go for Strat 11(Q1), Strat 3(Q2) and Strat 2(Q1) in every single qualifying lap, he has stopped telling that since Spain! In Spain though, while Hamilton was leaving the garage for Q2, he asked for a confirmation on Strat 3, to which Bono responded in affirmative and that was the only time I heard about the Strat mode. This is based on what I have heard, following hamilton from onboard camera mode in F1TV app for the whole of qualifying session for Hungary, Silverstone 1, Silverstone 2, Spain and Belgium. I did hear in Belgium for Q3 though, it was Strat 2.
Gangdom: Pom, Tom, Loverboy, Boomer.

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SiLo
95
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: Mercedes W11

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Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:34 am
So, it's safe to conclude that the upgrades have worked as expected. That car was a monster in Sector 2 yesterday with Hamilton, while being an almost match in Sector 1.

It's strange to see that, Mercedes is losing time in the last chicane, which used to be the car's strongest suite. The team has been talking about improving slow corner speed. But this one was way too far. They were 3 to 4 tenths slower, just in that chicane.
Where is your source for being 3-4 tenths slower only in the chicane?
Felipe Baby!

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

Post

Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:39 am
zibby43 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:13 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:13 pm
Applying eye-cfd, it appears they're setting up a vortex with the white-arrowed VGs. The red VGs then reinforce the vortex and also, crucially, direct it outwards or rather it stops the vortex being pulled in with the airflow as the coke-bottle narrows. I would then guess the yellow VGs are aimed at sending the vortex outboard around the rear tyre.

This is "sealing the floor" by running a vortex along the upper edge of the floor to help prevent air flowing from the side. The vortex "sucks" the poor airflow and reduces influx on the bottom edge of the floor.

As said, this is all eye-cfd based on nothing more than hand waving. :lol:
Think you're onto something, as all of these effects help generate more efficient downforce. Think the update was aimed at being even kinder on the tires, which would then allow the car to utilize more of its pace in the race without chewing through them

In AMuS' post-race analysis today, a Merc engineer reported:

"Our aero upgrade for race distances worked as the wind tunnel promised. Red Bull was closer on one-lap pace, but lost more time on us in the race trim. It usually works the other way round."
They must be having a good idea as to why that has changed. :)

Why is it that they had exact same top speed of 327 kph in each of the qualifying segments (Q1, Q2, Q3)? Saw that on live timing replay on F1 app.

Unlike upto Silverstone 2, where Bono used to tell Hamilton to go for Strat 11(Q1), Strat 3(Q2) and Strat 2(Q1) in every single qualifying lap, he has stopped telling that since Spain! In Spain though, while Hamilton was leaving the garage for Q2, he asked for a confirmation on Strat 3, to which Bono responded in affirmative and that was the only time I heard about the Strat mode. This is based on what I have heard, following hamilton from onboard camera mode in F1TV app for the whole of qualifying session for Hungary, Silverstone 1, Silverstone 2, Spain and Belgium. I did hear in Belgium for Q3 though, it was Strat 2.
Interesting re: the trap speeds remaining the same. Thanks for sharing.