Mercedes W11

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Evolution of the nose.

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NathanOlder
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W06 for me was the nicest of the lot.
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cplchanb
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W08 here...last of the truly open cockpit cars and the sharkfin looks nice on the car tbh

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Morteza
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Mercedes F1 was once again extremely dominant in 2020.

While expected to be a year when Red Bull Racing and Max Verstappen could finally fight against the Germans for the championship, James Allison actually reveals that his team didn't have to push much on the aerodynamic side.

"We stopped earlier than usual. Because of confinement, we have also lost seven weeks of time in the wind tunnel. A tough season normally about 35 weeks so we had already one-fifth less time," says the technical director.

But the data was so good that Mercedes F1 chose from mid-July to focus on 2021 F1, the W12 (which could also be called W11B).

“In fact, our last aerodynamic development for the W11 was completed in mid-July, a month and a half ahead of schedule for our 2020 F1 development. The latest developments were produced in time for Spa . "

"In total, we had three developments in 2020. The first in Austria, then at Silverstone and finally the smallest at Spa. All of this allowed us to devote more time than expected to our F1 in 2021. Unfortunately we had to have to wait until January 1 to start exploring 2022 F1."
Translated by Google from here
Mercedes reveals having completed its aerodnamic developments in mid-July
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Sharnlarry
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Re: Mercedes W11

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nico5 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:19 pm
Sharnlarry wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:54 am
nico5 wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:44 pm


It makes me laugh because the difference (EDIT: obviously in Merc's favour) in turn in (or rotation) at low speed between Merc and the rest of the grid we saw last year at tracks like Barcelona S3 or China or Monaco, not just visually but data-based, was as big as it's ever been. So either Hamilton understands nothing about car performance, which I struggle to believe for he's a great driver and a clever one, or they really can go on record and come up with whatever they wanna say and people are still gonna believe them.
If you look at turn 1 in Hungary 2019 for example the car didn’t rotate as well as the red bull as the front was lazy in qualifying trim. Looking at this years pole lap in Hungary the car gets to the apex way quicker that it did last year. Hamilton very much understands car performance and even though the car was good in low speed corners relative to the rest of the field it still had weaknesses so I don’t find anything in the article inaccurate.
Hungary 2019 is a tricky one. I think they set up the car to protect the rears in the race, so Merc ended up having more pace than RB in race trim than in qualy, something that hardly ever happened throughout 2019 and 2020. Of course, going in that direction means loading the rear and having an undesteery car with new tires, hence the less rotation. Might not be the only reason and for sure they might have made steps forward in that department as well, but I was just pointing out that certainly wasn't Merc's weakness in comparison to the other frontrunners in 2019. And that's how you measure what is one's weakness in F1, where everything is relative.
“The 2019 car was an excellent racing car, but it was a little harder to put it in pole position. There were reasons for that. As for our car, it was difficult to get the front axle sharp enough.” A quote from James Allison confirming Hamilton’s comments.

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Duke
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lio007
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Duke wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:07 am
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:08 am
https://preview.redd.it/vfvy7t4zop861. ... e20980ad14

Evolution of the nose.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... ybrid_era/
Nope:

DarthPlagueisTheVise
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Morteza wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:16 pm
Mercedes F1 was once again extremely dominant in 2020.

While expected to be a year when Red Bull Racing and Max Verstappen could finally fight against the Germans for the championship, James Allison actually reveals that his team didn't have to push much on the aerodynamic side.

"We stopped earlier than usual. Because of confinement, we have also lost seven weeks of time in the wind tunnel. A tough season normally about 35 weeks so we had already one-fifth less time," says the technical director.

But the data was so good that Mercedes F1 chose from mid-July to focus on 2021 F1, the W12 (which could also be called W11B).

“In fact, our last aerodynamic development for the W11 was completed in mid-July, a month and a half ahead of schedule for our 2020 F1 development. The latest developments were produced in time for Spa . "

"In total, we had three developments in 2020. The first in Austria, then at Silverstone and finally the smallest at Spa. All of this allowed us to devote more time than expected to our F1 in 2021. Unfortunately we had to have to wait until January 1 to start exploring 2022 F1."
Translated by Google from here
Mercedes reveals having completed its aerodnamic developments in mid-July
What was the upgrade for silverstone, weight reduction?

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Blackout
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Re: Mercedes W11

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I've noticed in 2019 that Merc has raised the pull rod assembly a lot as you know. But now i think I understand why, it's probably also for aero reasons too and it serves the same purpose as their 2020 'reversed lower whishbone. The front wishbone arm AND the pull rod have been completely cleared out of the way "to get high energy air down to a part of the car that loves high energy air" Allison. :P

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humble sabot
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Pretty sure it's 100% aero reasons. You sacrifice a lot of alignment for the suspension function by bringing the pull rods (or pushrods when present) more parallel with the control arms. It's why front pull rods on high nose cars never really caught on all that much because of the angle the pull rods had to function at. To compensate for that you saw a few of the cars with them having a significant downslope to the control arms, which was not necessarily what the suspension engineers wanted and it also meant moving the hardpoints on the chassis higher, negating somewhat the CG advantage of putting the dampers lower.
the four immutable forces:
static balance
dynamic balance
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dynamic imbalance

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ScrewCaptain27
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NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:09 am
W06 for me was the nicest of the lot.
Have to agree, every year since then it’s become increasingly...phallic, though nowhere near as bad as some of the 2014 noses.
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godlameroso
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Blackout wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:55 am
I've noticed in 2019 that Merc has raised the pull rod assembly a lot as you know. But now i think I understand why, it's probably also for aero reasons too and it serves the same purpose as their 2020 'reversed lower whishbone. The front wishbone arm AND the pull rod have been completely cleared out of the way "to get high energy air down to a part of the car that loves high energy air" Allison. :P

https://i.imgur.com/hqAs5EJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/p1LWfG2.jpg
This is a great picture that shows the difference between these two teams. Notice the difference in size of the transmission case it's nothing major by itself, it's not just the suspension being moved up. It's how much thinner the Mercedes transmission is than the Williams. Williams needs to make it that thick to make it strong enough, the Mercedes is much thinner at the critical aero area.

That one difference alone is probably worth close to a second of lap time. But how much money does it cost to test and develop such a thin sculpted transmission that can withstand the abuse of 8 races? That part of the transmission houses the differential, the clutch, and the suspension it's basically THE rear end of the car, the roll center and all the kinematics treat this as the focal point. The diffuser aero is critically dependent on this part of the car. Making this part better than everyone else is worth TONS of lap time, but it's also the most expensive part to develop shy of the engine. All the engine power is turning 90 degrees basically right at the rear end of the car, so to make it that thin is an incredible engineering feat.

If Mercedes is where it is, it is 40% because it has an incredible transmission.
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Blackout
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Exactly.
The exhasut packaging is another Merc ""silver bullet"" IMO.
Their gearbox borrows a simple but effective trick that Ferrari invented (and discarded) in 2016. The 3 exhaust pipes of each cylinder bank are merged inside the gearbox casing, behind the engine. This clears the sidepods very well because the pipes can be shrink-wrapped around the engine. So it's not (only) for engine tuning IMO, it's for aero too.
That's why the merc powered cars have a super tight bodywork and undercuts in that area. It looks like they don't have any exhausts (especially the W and FW)). 
Williams has the same features.
 
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Blackout
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2/3
But this requires a much larger 'hole' in each side of the gbox housing - in order to pass all 3 pipes - and this forces Merc to discard 2 of the 6 studs that are needed to mount the g-box on the V6.
That created stiffness problems for Ferrari in 2016, but Mercedes managed to overcome this problem. The split turbo layout helps though. 
Last edited by Blackout on Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Blackout
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