McLaren MCL35

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Chicane
Chicane
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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As said earlier the crashes in the last 2 GP have put enormous pressure on the production side. Drivers need to look at the big picture instead of trying to win the race in first corner.
Quickshifter

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SiLo
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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Chicane wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:22 pm
As said earlier the crashes in the last 2 GP have put enormous pressure on the production side. Drivers need to look at the big picture instead of trying to win the race in first corner.
I think Sainz was incredibly irresponsible with his driving.
Felipe Baby!

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AnthonyG
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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Chicane wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:22 pm
As said earlier the crashes in the last 2 GP have put enormous pressure on the production side. Drivers need to look at the big picture instead of trying to win the race in first corner.
In the current F1 allmost all races are won in the first corner, no wonder people take so high risks.
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

M840TR
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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Wrong threads guys.

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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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Image

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Emag
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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Does anyone know if the last couple of bargeboard upgrades were brought forward having the new nose in mind? Compared to the old front-end, the airflow directly under the nose is going to be different, and the Y-250 vortex is apparently going to be somewhat different as well judging by that front wing.

I am wondering if they have actually been working on this concept for a while but they haven't been able to bring the nose sooner for some reason. If that's the case, then we can maybe expect every new bit they have brought to the car (like the last couple of bargeboard bits) to start converging with the new nose (and the expected floor for this weekend). It could potentially bring some nice improvements if everything works out.

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godlameroso
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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The next updates will be on the turning vanes aft of the new nose. The way the air spills off the bargeboards is different with the Mercedes style nose vs the one they have. The difference isn't huge, but the implications of the airflow downstream and the way it interacts with the floor edge is.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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SiLo
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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I assume they raised the front wing flap to help keep the two flows separated between the cape and front wing leading edge? Like my shocking drawing below shows.

originally I thought they all went to the same place, but I was wondering if the cape vortex goes somewhere slightly different and it helps keep them separate as well as energised.

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hecti
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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SiLo wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:16 pm
I assume they raised the front wing flap to help keep the two flows separated between the cape and front wing leading edge? Like my shocking drawing below shows.

originally I thought they all went to the same place, but I was wondering if the cape vortex goes somewhere slightly different and it helps keep them separate as well as energised.

https://i.imgur.com/1gN9iWw.png
I think you got your vortex orientation for the Y250 backwards.

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_cerber1
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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SiLo wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:16 pm
I assume they raised the front wing flap to help keep the two flows separated between the cape and front wing leading edge? Like my shocking drawing below shows.

originally I thought they all went to the same place, but I was wondering if the cape vortex goes somewhere slightly different and it helps keep them separate as well as energised.

https://i.imgur.com/1gN9iWw.png
Adrian Newey wants to add you as a friend. :D

Dipesh1995
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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SiLo wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:16 pm
I assume they raised the front wing flap to help keep the two flows separated between the cape and front wing leading edge? Like my shocking drawing below shows.

originally I thought they all went to the same place, but I was wondering if the cape vortex goes somewhere slightly different and it helps keep them separate as well as energised.

https://i.imgur.com/1gN9iWw.png
You’ve got the rotational direction of the vortices the wrong way around. The cape vortex gets pulled under the bargeboard and floor whilst the Y250 heads around the bargeboards/sidepods towards the back of the car. There is an article on BBC Sport written by an F1 aerodynamicist on this topic: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51739796

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godlameroso
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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SiLo wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:16 pm
I assume they raised the front wing flap to help keep the two flows separated between the cape and front wing leading edge? Like my shocking drawing below shows.

originally I thought they all went to the same place, but I was wondering if the cape vortex goes somewhere slightly different and it helps keep them separate as well as energised.

https://i.imgur.com/1gN9iWw.png
It goes high to low, the upper surface on an F1 wing is the high pressure surface, so that air will want to move towards the low pressure side, IE underside. So the 250 vortex would be rotating counter clockwise looking at the car dead on.

The cape does two things, by the nature of the raised leading edge, it creates a high pressure zone due to airflow saturation this helps align the y250 vortex with the bargeboards. The net effect of the cape is a low pressure trailing edge vortex which is intended to merge with the FW 250 vortex increasing the helicity of this vortex. This increases the outwash flow along the bargeboard. The edge of the bargeboard, and side pod end fences continue adding helicity to this same vortex which is spilling off the bargeboard which originated at the front wing.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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SiLo
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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Thanks for the responses guys! So it would still see a similar effect (just the vortices rotate the other way).

Is it likely they actually interact with each other slightly and energise themselves? I ask as both flows are contra-rotating at the "meeting point" would both be moving in the same direction.

I wonder if this leads to cleaner airflow for both the vortices as they then move down the car?
Felipe Baby!

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godlameroso
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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SiLo wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:51 am
Thanks for the responses guys! So it would still see a similar effect (just the vortices rotate the other way).

Is it likely they actually interact with each other slightly and energise themselves? I ask as both flows are contra-rotating at the "meeting point" would both be moving in the same direction.

I wonder if this leads to cleaner airflow for both the vortices as they then move down the car?
Of course, one thing to keep in mind, regardless of Re# high pressure influences vortecies in exactly the same way. High pressure airflow acts as a barrier for a vortex. Look at Hurricanes out in the high seas, they're always steered by high pressure ridges. Curious because a hurricane is a big ass vortex, you'd think high pressure airmass would flow towards the low pressure of the hurricane, but it doesn't, it just acts as a barrier steering it.

When you create high pressure somewhere on the car(which happens with every single appendage you add) if a vortex is travelling parallel to that high pressure, the vortex will be steered by that high pressure field.

The cape can only condition so much airflow, it is still an obstruction, the leading edge of the cape is raised, these factors combined create a high pressure field at the leading edge of the cape, so while the cape and aft turning vanes are sending airflow to the floor, the mouth of the cape creates high pressure field steering the Y250 vortex as you correctly theorize.

The cape can potentially send more airflow to the floor, while strengthening the vortex that interacts with the bargeboards. The J-vanes send less potential airflow to the floor, but more airflow at the bargeboards. It's not a huge change, but can change the potential of the car drastically. McLaren has a unique nose during early season and I think it was their version of a compromise. They will need to go Mercedes style nose to take a step forward. They will be able to put more downforce on the front axle because they'll have more at the rear.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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diffuser
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Re: McLaren MCL35

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I see the cape more of preventing the air from coming up and interfering with the vortexes than pushing the air down.

Not sure that distriction makes a difference.