DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??

[Xwang]

Next year technical regulations state:

10.5.1
The steering system is the mechanical system, on and part of the sprung mass, that converts
the steering column demand into the outboard suspension position control for the re-
alignment of only the two front wheels (the steered wheels).

10.5.2
The re-alignment of the steered wheels, as defined by the position of the inboard attachment
of the relevant suspensions members that remain a fixed distance from each other, must be
uniquely defined by a monotonic function of the rotational position of a single steering
wheel.

That seems to ban the DAS for next year, but what happens if the longitudinal movement of this year DAS is changed in an additional rotational movement of the steering wheel around an axis perpendicular to the steering column?

[jjn9128]

That seems to ban the DAS for next year, but what happens if the longitudinal movement of this year DAS is changed in an additional rotational movement of the steering wheel around an axis perpendicular to the steering column?

Monotonic for me infers a single degree of freedom.

[izzy]

That seems to ban the DAS for next year, but what happens if the longitudinal movement of this year DAS is changed in an additional rotational movement of the steering wheel around an axis perpendicular to the steering column?

Monotonic for me infers a single degree of freedom.

i don't know why they used that strange word 'monotonic'. When i look it up it's about maths, not engineering. I'm taking @Xwang's idea as something like they could pull a lever to engage a toe-changing mechanism that then they drive by rotating the steering wheel for a second, still in its normal plane

sometimes i think FIA write the rules in this convoluted way specially to let teams hunt for ways round them!

[Just_a_fan]

They use monotonic because it means the movement has to either increase or decrease with the steering wheel's rotation. It can't increase and then decrease, for example. So you can have variable rate racks but you can't have the front wheels doing differing things in response to a single input from the steering wheel. Also, the only way the front wheels can be moved (other than in response to vertical loads from the track) is by turning the steering wheel.

[jjn9128]

i don't know why they used that strange word 'monotonic'. When i look it up it's about maths, not engineering. I'm taking @Xwang's idea as something like they could pull a lever to engage a toe-changing mechanism that then they drive by rotating the steering wheel for a second, still in its normal plane

sometimes i think FIA write the rules in this convoluted way specially to let teams hunt for ways round them!

You're suggesting engineering isn't maths!?

[izzy]

i don't know why they used that strange word 'monotonic'. When i look it up it's about maths, not engineering. I'm taking @Xwang's idea as something like they could pull a lever to engage a toe-changing mechanism that then they drive by rotating the steering wheel for a second, still in its normal plane

sometimes i think FIA write the rules in this convoluted way specially to let teams hunt for ways round them!

You're suggesting engineering isn't maths!?

maths is abstract isn't it, it's something you apply in engineering. and when i look up 'monotonic' it doesn't seem to have anything to do with a racing car whatsoever! Why would anybody use that word in F1 regulations? if they actually wanted them to be clear

[hollus]

adjective: monotonic

1. Mathematics
(of a function or quantity) varying in such a way that it either never decreases or never increases.

Sounds clear enough to me.

[Just_a_fan]

maths is abstract isn't it,

Maths is the language of the Universe.

[izzy]

They use monotonic because it means the movement has to either increase or decrease with the steering wheel's rotation. It can't increase and then decrease, for example. So you can have variable rate racks but you can't have the front wheels doing differing things in response to a single input from the steering wheel. Also, the only way the front wheels can be moved (other than in response to vertical loads from the track) is by turning the steering wheel.

oh i missed this before, thanks, so having toed the wheels in it mustn't toe them back out again? That would be a bit of a killer

[nevill3]

I do like the idea of rotating the steering wheel on more than one plane to circumvent this new rule, but next year there is another new rule that prevents teams from purposely circumventing any rule or regulation to gain an advantage. This is to prevent teams realising that, for example a comma or a full stop is in the wrong place and alters the interpretation of a specific regulation, and in essence gives FIA/liberty a way to enforce the "spirit of the regulaions" where as now they cannot.

[nevill3]

They use monotonic because it means the movement has to either increase or decrease with the steering wheel's rotation. It can't increase and then decrease, for example. So you can have variable rate racks but you can't have the front wheels doing differing things in response to a single input from the steering wheel. Also, the only way the front wheels can be moved (other than in response to vertical loads from the track) is by turning the steering wheel.

oh i missed this before, thanks, so having toed the wheels in it mustn't toe them back out again? That would be a bit of a killer

I thought monotonic meant that the movement can NOT increase or decrease but remain constant

adjective: monotonic

1. Mathematics
(of a function or quantity) varying in such a way that it either never decreases or never increases.

[izzy]

I thought monotonic meant that the movement can NOT increase or decrease but remain constant

adjective: monotonic

1. Mathematics
(of a function or quantity) varying in such a way that it either never decreases or never increases.

well it confused me as i've never come across something that does this irl, but getting rid of the negative it seems to mean it can vary it but only in one direction not back again: "either only ever increases, OR only ever decreases"

of course it wouldn't have been F1 if they'd just said that, or said they can't change the toe independently or something

[Just_a_fan]

I thought monotonic meant that the movement can NOT increase or decrease but remain constant

adjective: monotonic

1. Mathematics
(of a function or quantity) varying in such a way that it either never decreases or never increases.

well it confused me as i've never come across something that does this irl, but getting rid of the negative it seems to mean it can vary it but only in one direction not back again: "either only ever increases, OR only ever decreases"

of course it wouldn't have been F1 if they'd just said that, or said they can't change the toe independently or something

Using a known, defined engineering/mathematical term is correct. Why do it in "simple Simon" terms that aren't well defined?

[izzy]

Using a known, defined engineering/mathematical term is correct. Why do it in "simple Simon" terms that aren't well defined?

because this:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
"Monotonicity" redirects here. For information on monotonicity as it pertains to voting systems, see monotonicity criterion. For information on monotonicity as it pertains to logical systems, see Monotonicity of entailment.
"Monotonic" redirects here. For other uses, see Monotone (disambiguation).

Figure 1. A monotonically increasing function.

Figure 2. A monotonically decreasing function

Figure 3. A function that is not monotonic
In mathematics, a monotonic function (or monotone function) is a function between ordered sets that preserves or reverses the given order.[1][2][3] This concept first arose in calculus, and was later generalized to the more abstract setting of order theory.

simple is simple, you can define anything simply, obscure is just showing off

[Big Tea]

Using a known, defined engineering/mathematical term is correct. Why do it in "simple Simon" terms that aren't well defined?

because this:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
"Monotonicity" redirects here. For information on monotonicity as it pertains to voting systems, see monotonicity criterion. For information on monotonicity as it pertains to logical systems, see Monotonicity of entailment.
"Monotonic" redirects here. For other uses, see Monotone (disambiguation).

Figure 1. A monotonically increasing function.

Figure 2. A monotonically decreasing function

Figure 3. A function that is not monotonic
In mathematics, a monotonic function (or monotone function) is a function between ordered sets that preserves or reverses the given order.[1][2][3] This concept first arose in calculus, and was later generalized to the more abstract setting of order theory.

simple is simple, you can define anything simply, obscure is just showing off

Think 'monotonous'.