McLaren MCL35M

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mwillems
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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DiogoBrand wrote:
18 Feb 2021, 23:07
What I fund funny is that everywhere you read about the car you see more or less the same thing:
"McLaren have started on the backfoot because they had to spend tokens to accomodate the power unit while other teams can use them to upgrade the chassis".

I mean, isn't the new PU an upgrade itself? I know it's anyone's guess how much better the Merc is in comparison to the Renault, but I think it's still pretty clear that it is superior, not to mention the packaging benefits it seems to have allowed.

I'm not saying that assumption from the journalists is definitely wrong, but at the same time there is a possibility of McLaren losing out due to spending tokens for the new PU, there is a slight possibility for it to work the other way around and become the best upgrade they could've made. I mean, the car from 2018 wasn't very good at the end of the season, but it was quite clear that it was a better car at the start when they changed to Renault.
I do agree with this. Whilst it is not possible to say we have definately run away with it and gained a huge amount of time from the front runners, I do think it is a stretch to suggest that these regs definitely haven't worked in our favour.

It isn't just the engine, or the packaging, it is the ability to extend the wheelbase too in a time when a larger floor can be beneficial.

I've seen a lot of contradictions from Mclaren about how the token system can affect them, how limited they are and how some changes couldn't be for performance but had to be required in order to get the engine shoe horned in. I saw statements from Zak brown about how they will only really take an advantage from the engine, but that it is an upgrade in itself so he's OK. I saw James key saying the changes were largely functional and to get the engine, and in another he started it by saying he had to compromise and ended it saying he didn't feel like they had to comproimise too much on performance.

But then you look at that car and that car contradicts those statements. I don't see too much in compromise with the FIA and I don't see anything that suggests we haven't been able to take a huge amount of advantage from the packaging of the Merc engine, as they had previously said. I'm sure they could do some more, but I mean the dress size reduction on that car is akin to a crash diet (forgive the pun). If this is a compromise then the solution that might have been created without token restriction must have been magnificent.

I'm not so sure that Mclaren weren't playing a little gamesmanship as they negotiated with the FIA and I think that part fueled this "poor Mclaren" feeling, when in reality, with the ability to alter the wheelbase, the engine, the packaging and the aero, our scope for change is enormous compared to the other teams. We should be able to use it right and gain a lot of time. It doesn't mean we have, but with that scope, the potential was there for Mclaren to gain a lot of speed this season, in albeit a throwaway season.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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SmallSoldier wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 00:58

I agree that we won’t until the end of the season... But just a few points, the Front Suspension is Mclaren’s (not a copy of Mercedes) and the same used last year... The cape was introduced by Mclaren in Spain in 2017 on the MCL33 so I wouldn’t consider it a copy of Mercedes and the tighter engine cover is just a natural evolution, since the MCL34 was tighter than the MCL33 and the MCL35 tighter than the MCL34 so it has been a process to continuously reduce that footprint.

The nose, definitely a Mercedes concept copy and the more aggressive over cut also have a Mercedes influence (which may also be possible due to the Merc PU packaging and not that easy with the Renault PU, the MCL35 already had an over cut although not as pronounced as this year’s car, but beyond that I don’t see a lot more that is Mercedes driven in the car (the end plates of the rear wing are a Haas inspiration)... The bargeboard area is also pretty unique to the Mclaren, with the louvres on the side deflectors also inspired by Haas, who were the first ones to introduce them if I’m not wrong.


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The cape.. Macca copied the cape in 2020 not 2017. And took a few races to get it to work in fact. In 2017 they had a thumb nosed car

Look at the evolution of the McLaren care and you they have ditched a significant portion of their concepts to be as close as they can functionally get it to some of the Mercedes elemements.

It is convergence but a one with many points of discontinuity. (no smooth transisitions).

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mwillems
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 02:11
SmallSoldier wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 00:58

I agree that we won’t until the end of the season... But just a few points, the Front Suspension is Mclaren’s (not a copy of Mercedes) and the same used last year... The cape was introduced by Mclaren in Spain in 2017 on the MCL33 so I wouldn’t consider it a copy of Mercedes and the tighter engine cover is just a natural evolution, since the MCL34 was tighter than the MCL33 and the MCL35 tighter than the MCL34 so it has been a process to continuously reduce that footprint.

The nose, definitely a Mercedes concept copy and the more aggressive over cut also have a Mercedes influence (which may also be possible due to the Merc PU packaging and not that easy with the Renault PU, the MCL35 already had an over cut although not as pronounced as this year’s car, but beyond that I don’t see a lot more that is Mercedes driven in the car (the end plates of the rear wing are a Haas inspiration)... The bargeboard area is also pretty unique to the Mclaren, with the louvres on the side deflectors also inspired by Haas, who were the first ones to introduce them if I’m not wrong.


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The cape.. Macca copied the cape in 2020 not 2017. And took a few races to get it to work in fact. In 2017 they had a thumb nosed car

Look at the evolution of the McLaren care and you they have ditched a significant portion of their concepts to be as close as they can functionally get it to some of the Mercedes elemements.

It is convergence but a one with many points of discontinuity. (no smooth transisitions).
The cape at the introduction of the MCL33 in 2018.

https://www.f1technical.net/development ... -nose-cone

I was looking to see if I could find it in a mid season update on the 2017 car, but looking at the MCL32 was just too unpleasant an experience. Only a mother could love it.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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I didn't really consider that one a Mercedes cape. Its certainly mclaren's own thing for their nose design. It very likely works differentlty too.
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 00:58

I agree that we won’t until the end of the season... But just a few points, the Front Suspension is Mclaren’s (not a copy of Mercedes) and the same used last year... The cape was introduced by Mclaren in Spain in 2017 on the MCL33 so I wouldn’t consider it a copy of Mercedes and the tighter engine cover is just a natural evolution, since the MCL34 was tighter than the MCL33 and the MCL35 tighter than the MCL34 so it has been a process to continuously reduce that footprint.

The nose, definitely a Mercedes concept copy and the more aggressive over cut also have a Mercedes influence (which may also be possible due to the Merc PU packaging and not that easy with the Renault PU, the MCL35 already had an over cut although not as pronounced as this year’s car, but beyond that I don’t see a lot more that is Mercedes driven in the car (the end plates of the rear wing are a Haas inspiration)... The bargeboard area is also pretty unique to the Mclaren, with the louvres on the side deflectors also inspired by Haas, who were the first ones to introduce them if I’m not wrong.


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The cape.. Macca copied the cape in 2020 not 2017. And took a few races to get it to work in fact. In 2017 they had a thumb nosed car

Look at the evolution of the McLaren care and you they have ditched a significant portion of their concepts to be as close as they can functionally get it to some of the Mercedes elemements.

It is convergence but a one with many points of discontinuity. (no smooth transisitions).
MCL33 - 2017 Mclaren’s Cape:

Image


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_cerber1
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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SmallSoldier wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 03:15
MCL33 - 2017 Mclaren’s Cape:
2018

DarthPlagueisTheVise
DarthPlagueisTheVise
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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SmallSoldier wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 00:58
PlatinumZealot wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
18 Feb 2021, 22:27


It’s called convergence... The more stable the regulations, the more the teams start to adopt similar philosophies (specially those from the leading car(s).

I wouldn’t call it a copy though, since the concept is very different in key areas such as the front wing and bargeboards... If trying to have the slimmest possible engine cover and sidepods means copying Mercedes, then yes... But that is the goal of all the teams since it means effectively less drag... In any case, everyone would be copying Mclaren’s “Size Zero” concept from 2015.


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That phrase was a metaphor. :roll:
Of course its they didn't do like Racing point did. About convergence... Hmm.. Will need a topic on that at the end of the year... Performance wise... Ha.. Apperance wise.. Hmm.

The key merc-like elements on the Macca now. The front suspension. Nose. Cape. Barge boards. Guide vanes. jelly mould side pods etc.

Will have to watch the races to see how the car behaves on track if it has similar characterics strengths and weaknesses.
I agree that we won’t until the end of the season... But just a few points, the Front Suspension is Mclaren’s (not a copy of Mercedes) and the same used last year... The cape was introduced by Mclaren in Spain in 2017 on the MCL33 so I wouldn’t consider it a copy of Mercedes and the tighter engine cover is just a natural evolution, since the MCL34 was tighter than the MCL33 and the MCL35 tighter than the MCL34 so it has been a process to continuously reduce that footprint.

The nose, definitely a Mercedes concept copy and the more aggressive over cut also have a Mercedes influence (which may also be possible due to the Merc PU packaging and not that easy with the Renault PU, the MCL35 already had an over cut although not as pronounced as this year’s car, but beyond that I don’t see a lot more that is Mercedes driven in the car (the end plates of the rear wing are a Haas inspiration)... The bargeboard area is also pretty unique to the Mclaren, with the louvres on the side deflectors also inspired by Haas, who were the first ones to introduce them if I’m not wrong.


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I am pretty sure mcl33 is the 2018 car though and mcl intruduced the cape at the 2018 spanish gp
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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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Image


It's a Beauty alright...

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djos
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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Image doesn’t work for me.
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Herr_Koos
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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mclaren111 wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 09:19
https://img.mewe.com/api/v2/photo/WZjPo ... g?static=0


It's a Beauty alright...
Can't see any image.

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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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Image


Now ??

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Holm86
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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Morteza
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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Still doesn't work. Can you upload it on a site like imgbb or something?
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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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Morteza wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 10:58
Still doesn't work. Can you upload it on a site like imgbb or something?
Done... imgbb... User Name Mclaren111

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Herr_Koos
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Re: McLaren MCL35M

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mclaren111 wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 11:13
Morteza wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 10:58
Still doesn't work. Can you upload it on a site like imgbb or something?
Done... imgbb... User Name Mclaren111
I think the idea is that you upload it to IMGBB and the post the link from there to here. Works like IMGUR. It allows you to upload an image and then embed it in a forum post using a link.