Red Bull RB16B

[SiLo]

I've always heard it's hard to add rear downforce, but never much about the front of the vehicle without then affecting everything downstream. I wonder if their already in the pipeline developments will be able to add the front downforce they require, otherwise it could become a slight achilles heel for them at front limited circuits.

[diffuser]

Seems odd to move to a lower downforce wing. Maybe with the high downforce wing they can't seem to get the balance right?

That would be my guess… They couldn’t dial out the understeer, therefore if you can’t add more front downforce, the only way to deal with the understeer is to take rear wing out

It certainly looks like '20 to '21 the rear has gone from weakest to strongest downforce side of the car. With the front relatively unchanged that means they just had to take rear wing off to balance it out. So on front limited tracks like Barcelona, France and Hungary going low downforce on the rear wing was their only choice. The better/stronger rear tyres contributed to even more understeer I think. The new rears don't have to be a negative factor as long as the track is not high downforce front limited.

Impressive that this year's car has more rear DF than last when the regulation changes only effected the rear. You have to think they've surpassed the rear DF they had available last year. Because of the regulation lock down (you could basically only work on the front or the rear) they were not allowed to improve the front.

I don't like the way you worded ..."The better/stronger rear tyres contributed to even more understeer I think." They are unable to take advantage of the better rear tires in certain circumstances cause their front end can't handle it.

[NathanOlder]

That would be my guess… They couldn’t dial out the understeer, therefore if you can’t add more front downforce, the only way to deal with the understeer is to take rear wing out

It certainly looks like '20 to '21 the rear has gone from weakest to strongest downforce side of the car. With the front relatively unchanged that means they just had to take rear wing off to balance it out. So on front limited tracks like Barcelona, France and Hungary going low downforce on the rear wing was their only choice. The better/stronger rear tyres contributed to even more understeer I think. The new rears don't have to be a negative factor as long as the track is not high downforce front limited.

Impressive that this year's car has more rear DF than last when the regulation changes only effected the rear. You have to think they've surpassed the rear DF they had available last year.

If they have more rear downforce than they did last year, they would be quicker than last year, but the cars are well off the pace of last year so I can't see how anyone can have more rear end grip than last year.

[Wouter]

Tech analysis: Red Bull's latest F1 brake duct tweaks
By: Matt Somerfield Co-author: Giorgio Piola
Aug 10, 2021, 10:15 AM

Red Bull was extremely busy during the opening phase of 2021, bringing performance updates at nearly every Formula 1 grand prix.
[ ..... ]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/tech ... s/6645162/

[diffuser]

It certainly looks like '20 to '21 the rear has gone from weakest to strongest downforce side of the car. With the front relatively unchanged that means they just had to take rear wing off to balance it out. So on front limited tracks like Barcelona, France and Hungary going low downforce on the rear wing was their only choice. The better/stronger rear tyres contributed to even more understeer I think. The new rears don't have to be a negative factor as long as the track is not high downforce front limited.

Impressive that this year's car has more rear DF than last when the regulation changes only effected the rear. You have to think they've surpassed the rear DF they had available last year.

If they have more rear downforce than they did last year, they would be quicker than last year, but the cars are well off the pace of last year so I can't see how anyone can have more rear end grip than last year.

Yet they have to cut it back(run lower DF rear wings) cause the front can't keep up.

[NathanOlder]

Redbull don't appear to be able to run much rear wing as the drag is too high and they end up too slow on the straights.

I dont think there is ever too much rear downforce in f1. too much drag certainly, but there's no way they have trimmed the rear wing because of too much rear grip.

[Stu]

Impressive that this year's car has more rear DF than last when the regulation changes only effected the rear. You have to think they've surpassed the rear DF they had available last year.

If they have more rear downforce than they did last year, they would be quicker than last year, but the cars are well off the pace of last year so I can't see how anyone can have more rear end grip than last year.

Yet they have to cut it back(run lower DF rear wings) cause the front can't keep up.

But is about balance, isn’t it (in particular with how it changes with speed), when the whole grid is covered by a time difference that is so small 0.05% of a performance change can be important (very important-maybe the difference between Q1&Q3!!!).

I think that the biggest game-changer that we will see this year is with the rear tyres (and how the stiffer sidewall behaves), it appears to suit the M******* more than the Red Bull, others appear to very neutral.

[windy1603]

More likely the higher rear downforce as the rear wing is not flexing so much could be affecting the ballance at high speed now the low tolerance rules are fully in affect

Sent from my SM-T830 using Tapatalk

[godlameroso]

If they have more rear downforce than they did last year, they would be quicker than last year, but the cars are well off the pace of last year so I can't see how anyone can have more rear end grip than last year.

Yet they have to cut it back(run lower DF rear wings) cause the front can't keep up.

But is about balance, isn’t it (in particular with how it changes with speed), when the whole grid is covered by a time difference that is so small 0.05% of a performance change can be important (very important-maybe the difference between Q1&Q3!!!).

I think that the biggest game-changer that we will see this year is with the rear tyres (and how the stiffer sidewall behaves), it appears to suit the M******* more than the Red Bull, others appear to very neutral.

Perhaps it's a matter of getting more seat time with them. I feel that finishing the race with a wounded car, at least let Verstappen get a feel for the tires, and at least some useful data for the engineers in how they can adapt the setup going forward.

Spa will be interesting, looking like rain on race day.

[Morteza]

[Morteza]

[Alexf1]

Redbull don't appear to be able to run much rear wing as the drag is too high and they end up too slow on the straights.

I dont think there is ever too much rear downforce in f1. too much drag certainly, but there's no way they have trimmed the rear wing because of too much rear grip.

Does anyone know the following: with equal rear wing setting and same hp, how many km/h would a high rake car be slower than a low rake car at the end of a medium length straight like Austria or Barcelona? This year RB16B and W12 always seem to have different rear wing DF levels to one another so it's difficult to compare.

[godlameroso]

From what I see, it depends. If you have a high rake car that squats at speed, then the drag at speed would change, if you maintain that rake at speed, then I would imagine it would change the drag as well, how I have no clue.

[diffuser]

From what I see, it depends. If you have a high rake car that squats at speed, then the drag at speed would change, if you maintain that rake at speed, then I would imagine it would change the drag as well, how I have no clue.

The spring setting is a part of the setup. I have not seen a high rake car not burn off the rake fairly quickly. Generally you want full rake at sub 150kph speeds. Basical so you can go full throttle sooner. Once you get to a full throttle speed the rake starts to drop off fairly quickly. So the answer to the previous person's question..at equal rear wing DF levels ...the high rake car at high speed will have less rear wing, less DF and therefore less drag at top speed.

To my knowledge RBR have taken rear wing off because of understeer on the front. Taking the rear wing off gives them better balance. On certain tracks, they don't seem to get the DF on the front to balance with the DF on the rear.

[godlameroso]

If they have understeer in the front that means they have too much rear downforce for the front wing they're using. That would naturally prompt them to move away from the highest downforce rear wing in order to balance the car properly. They don't need to go crazy with the rear wing because the rest of the rear end is so efficient, the Silverstone wing should be plenty at Zandvoort.