Ferrari SF21

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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gordonthegun
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Location: Gorgonzola (Milan), Italy.

Re: Ferrari SF21

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F1NAC wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:49 am
Since development is already stopped we can maybe expect some upgrades but probabl on micro level. So no major changes on the shapes of current aerosurfaces.
In the last 10 years has Ferrari ever made major aero changes in season?

FDD
FDD
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Re: Ferrari SF21

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gordonthegun wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:02 pm
F1NAC wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:49 am
Since development is already stopped we can maybe expect some upgrades but probabl on micro level. So no major changes on the shapes of current aerosurfaces.
In the last 10 years has Ferrari ever made major aero changes in season?
I can not remember on something like that in the last decade.

EDIT: The last one with major aero updates in the season was 412 T1, if I am not wrong.

MoP
MoP
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Re: Ferrari SF21

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gordonthegun wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:02 pm
F1NAC wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:49 am
Since development is already stopped we can maybe expect some upgrades but probabl on micro level. So no major changes on the shapes of current aerosurfaces.
In the last 10 years has Ferrari ever made major aero changes in season?
That is just not true. 2015, 2017 and 2018 All this cars were developed massively. 2018 backfired in Singapore. 2017 the cars was aerodynamically the class of the field all year. The engine let the car down as well as reliability.

I too remember Ferati bringing a almost new car in Barcelona 2007 thinking further back.
Yes, in years in between there has been stagnation, but not always by far.

FDD
FDD
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Re: Ferrari SF21

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MoP wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:21 pm
gordonthegun wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:02 pm
F1NAC wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:49 am
Since development is already stopped we can maybe expect some upgrades but probabl on micro level. So no major changes on the shapes of current aerosurfaces.
In the last 10 years has Ferrari ever made major aero changes in season?
That is just not true. 2015, 2017 and 2018 All this cars were developed massively. 2018 backfired in Singapore. 2017 the cars was aerodynamically the class of the field all year. The engine let the car down as well as reliability.

I too remember Ferati bringing a almost new car in Barcelona 2007 thinking further back.
Yes, in years in between there has been stagnation, but not always by far.
Maybe you are right,
Depending on that what we consider as major aero changes.
According to me if I remember well in 2007 they had aero development in the season but not major changes, maybe I am wrong, but this is my opinion and is not necessary to be the correct one.

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gordonthegun
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:33 pm
Location: Gorgonzola (Milan), Italy.

Re: Ferrari SF21

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MoP wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:21 pm
gordonthegun wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:02 pm
F1NAC wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:49 am
Since development is already stopped we can maybe expect some upgrades but probabl on micro level. So no major changes on the shapes of current aerosurfaces.
In the last 10 years has Ferrari ever made major aero changes in season?
That is just not true. 2015, 2017 and 2018 All this cars were developed massively. 2018 backfired in Singapore. 2017 the cars was aerodynamically the class of the field all year. The engine let the car down as well as reliability.

I too remember Ferati bringing a almost new car in Barcelona 2007 thinking further back.
Yes, in years in between there has been stagnation, but not always by far.
In 2015, 2017, 2018, which would be these massive aero developments?
One of the weaknesses of Ferrari is the lack of development in season, in particular the aero one.
I stop here as we are off topic, being this a thread of this year car.
I just wanted to point out that this year is not so different from the others.

LM10
LM10
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: Ferrari SF21

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gordonthegun wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:42 pm
MoP wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:21 pm
gordonthegun wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:02 pm


In the last 10 years has Ferrari ever made major aero changes in season?
That is just not true. 2015, 2017 and 2018 All this cars were developed massively. 2018 backfired in Singapore. 2017 the cars was aerodynamically the class of the field all year. The engine let the car down as well as reliability.

I too remember Ferati bringing a almost new car in Barcelona 2007 thinking further back.
Yes, in years in between there has been stagnation, but not always by far.
In 2015, 2017, 2018, which would be these massive aero developments?
One of the weaknesses of Ferrari is the lack of development in season, in particular the aero one.
I stop here as we are off topic, being this a thread of this year car.
I just wanted to point out that this year is not so different from the others.
What major developments do you expect from Ferrari in this season? It’s been clear from get go that they will spend not so much time and effort into the SF21. It would not make sense anyway.

The major problem of Ferrari in the last few years preventing them from developing effectively has been a correlation issue. For this season one of their biggest goals was to solve that and it seems they did.

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gordonthegun
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Location: Gorgonzola (Milan), Italy.

Re: Ferrari SF21

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LM10 wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:14 pm
gordonthegun wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:42 pm
MoP wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:21 pm


That is just not true. 2015, 2017 and 2018 All this cars were developed massively. 2018 backfired in Singapore. 2017 the cars was aerodynamically the class of the field all year. The engine let the car down as well as reliability.

I too remember Ferati bringing a almost new car in Barcelona 2007 thinking further back.
Yes, in years in between there has been stagnation, but not always by far.
In 2015, 2017, 2018, which would be these massive aero developments?
One of the weaknesses of Ferrari is the lack of development in season, in particular the aero one.
I stop here as we are off topic, being this a thread of this year car.
I just wanted to point out that this year is not so different from the others.
What major developments do you expect from Ferrari in this season? It’s been clear from get go that they will spend not so much time and effort into the SF21. It would not make sense anyway.

The major problem of Ferrari in the last few years preventing them from developing effectively has been a correlation issue. For this season one of their biggest goals was to solve that and it seems they did.
Did I write somewhere that I am expecting big updates from Ferrari this year?
In my opinion, they have solved the correlation issue as the correlation this year doesn't take place as they don't bring new parts on track.
Easy to solve correlation issues this way.

LM10
LM10
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: Ferrari SF21

Post

gordonthegun wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:50 pm
LM10 wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:14 pm
gordonthegun wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:42 pm


In 2015, 2017, 2018, which would be these massive aero developments?
One of the weaknesses of Ferrari is the lack of development in season, in particular the aero one.
I stop here as we are off topic, being this a thread of this year car.
I just wanted to point out that this year is not so different from the others.
What major developments do you expect from Ferrari in this season? It’s been clear from get go that they will spend not so much time and effort into the SF21. It would not make sense anyway.

The major problem of Ferrari in the last few years preventing them from developing effectively has been a correlation issue. For this season one of their biggest goals was to solve that and it seems they did.
Did I write somewhere that I am expecting big updates from Ferrari this year?
In my opinion, they have solved the correlation issue as the correlation this year doesn't take place as they don't bring new parts on track.
Easy to solve correlation issues this way.
Binotto told they’re happy with how correlation works now. You can believe him or not.

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gordonthegun
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:33 pm
Location: Gorgonzola (Milan), Italy.

Re: Ferrari SF21

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LM10 wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:44 pm
gordonthegun wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:50 pm
LM10 wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:14 pm


What major developments do you expect from Ferrari in this season? It’s been clear from get go that they will spend not so much time and effort into the SF21. It would not make sense anyway.

The major problem of Ferrari in the last few years preventing them from developing effectively has been a correlation issue. For this season one of their biggest goals was to solve that and it seems they did.
Did I write somewhere that I am expecting big updates from Ferrari this year?
In my opinion, they have solved the correlation issue as the correlation this year doesn't take place as they don't bring new parts on track.
Easy to solve correlation issues this way.
Binotto told they’re happy with how correlation works now. You can believe him or not.
Next year we'll know how good is correlation.

Sevach
Sevach
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:00 pm

Re: Ferrari SF21

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MoP wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:21 pm
gordonthegun wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:02 pm
F1NAC wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:49 am
Since development is already stopped we can maybe expect some upgrades but probabl on micro level. So no major changes on the shapes of current aerosurfaces.
In the last 10 years has Ferrari ever made major aero changes in season?
That is just not true. 2015, 2017 and 2018 All this cars were developed massively. 2018 backfired in Singapore. 2017 the cars was aerodynamically the class of the field all year. The engine let the car down as well as reliability.

I too remember Ferati bringing a almost new car in Barcelona 2007 thinking further back.
Yes, in years in between there has been stagnation, but not always by far.
2019 was a year where they massively changed the performance characteristics of the car, but it happened gradually so people didn't think much of it.

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Schippke
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Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:00 am
Location: Australia

Re: Ferrari SF21

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Sevach wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:46 pm
2019 was a year where they massively changed the performance characteristics of the car, but it happened gradually so people didn't think much of it.
Gradually, you say? I think it was almost night and day by how the performance of the car changed... almost drastic. Think back to the Summer Break at Budapest where Ferrari finished a solid minute or so behind Mercedes and Red Bull, then somewhat expectingly were very quick in Spa and Monza... before rocking-up to Singapore and having a car that only several weeks prior on a twisty track, couldn't hold a candle to the Mercedes or the Red Bull. A lot of followers suggest that they Spa/Monza races is what got people talking about Ferrari's improvement in pace, but honestly I think the real eye-opener was Singapore.

Regardless, back to SF21... I think Ferrari is satisfied with how they've managed to bring so upgrades with this years car... and at the very least it'll give them some confidence heading into 2022 in trusting their calculations and correlations. Even if they don't development the car much anymore for this year, they might still find some more pace... one might recall in 2009 where Ferrari stopped development of the car quite early on and up until the last couple of races, admitted to finding more time and performance out of the F60 purely down to setup and understanding of the existing package and tyres. The same could happen to the SF21... hopefully the team gets a few clean weekends to maximise the performance of the package. I'm still expecting to see a few more new(ish) bits for the low-downforce tracks that are coming-up...

Sevach
Sevach
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:00 pm

Re: Ferrari SF21

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Schippke wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:02 pm
Sevach wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:46 pm
2019 was a year where they massively changed the performance characteristics of the car, but it happened gradually so people didn't think much of it.
Gradually, you say? I think it was almost night and day by how the performance of the car changed... almost drastic. Think back to the Summer Break at Budapest where Ferrari finished a solid minute or so behind Mercedes and Red Bull, then somewhat expectingly were very quick in Spa and Monza... before rocking-up to Singapore and having a car that only several weeks prior on a twisty track, couldn't hold a candle to the Mercedes or the Red Bull. A lot of followers suggest that they Spa/Monza races is what got people talking about Ferrari's improvement in pace, but honestly I think the real eye-opener was Singapore.

You are right in that, everybody expected Ferrari to do nothing at Singapore, it was very surprising.
Just that the upgrades that changed the car came piece meal, new FW, then new barge boards, x-vane, RW endplates... and at Singapore came the nose nostrils and floor and the car kicked into high gear.

Not only Ferrari suprised at Singapore, they set several poles in a row (and yes the engine played a huge part, but they weren't doing that before).

ryaan2904
ryaan2904
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:45 am

Re: Ferrari SF21

Post

gordonthegun wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:42 pm
MoP wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:21 pm
gordonthegun wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:02 pm


In the last 10 years has Ferrari ever made major aero changes in season?
That is just not true. 2015, 2017 and 2018 All this cars were developed massively. 2018 backfired in Singapore. 2017 the cars was aerodynamically the class of the field all year. The engine let the car down as well as reliability.

I too remember Ferati bringing a almost new car in Barcelona 2007 thinking further back.
Yes, in years in between there has been stagnation, but not always by far.
In 2015, 2017, 2018, which would be these massive aero developments?
One of the weaknesses of Ferrari is the lack of development in season, in particular the aero one.
I stop here as we are off topic, being this a thread of this year car.
I just wanted to point out that this year is not so different from the others.
In-season development has been one of their weaknesses, but i think their major weakness is building the chassis around the tires. Atleast since after 2017.
Hope they do something different from next year.

Xwang
Xwang
33
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Re: Ferrari SF21

Post

ryaan2904 wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:49 pm
gordonthegun wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:42 pm
MoP wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:21 pm


That is just not true. 2015, 2017 and 2018 All this cars were developed massively. 2018 backfired in Singapore. 2017 the cars was aerodynamically the class of the field all year. The engine let the car down as well as reliability.

I too remember Ferati bringing a almost new car in Barcelona 2007 thinking further back.
Yes, in years in between there has been stagnation, but not always by far.
In 2015, 2017, 2018, which would be these massive aero developments?
One of the weaknesses of Ferrari is the lack of development in season, in particular the aero one.
I stop here as we are off topic, being this a thread of this year car.
I just wanted to point out that this year is not so different from the others.
In-season development has been one of their weaknesses, but i think their major weakness is building the chassis around the tires. Atleast since after 2017.
Hope they do something different from next year.
What do you mean by "building the chassis around the tires" ?
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

ryaan2904
ryaan2904
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:45 am

Re: Ferrari SF21

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By chassis, i mean the mechanical grip components of the chassis like the suspension systems.
After 2017, Ferrari has always been bad with their tyre management. Their operating window has always been too small.
For now, ik that they use different tyre warming and management strategies then Rb or Mercs. Different doesnt always translate to better though.