Mercedes W13 Speculation Thread

[Marty_Y]

I posted this video in another thread, but I think it's relevant here because at the beginning it talks about changes to the rules regarding suspension and how it might effect Mercedes approach to the W13.

They all do it though. It's just a matter of how much.

The whole concept of high rake works because of it squatting at speed.

Thanks, yes I'm aware that everyone does it to some degree, but the reason I posted it was because of the way Mercedes did it, and with the changes in the rules would they still be able to use the same method or would they still want to?

https://the-race.com/formula-1/just-how ... n-f1-2021/

With the performance of the two cars still close enough for conditions and track configurations to swing the balance, the key advantage Mercedes had was that it had an aero efficient car – helped by its rear suspension system that at high-speed dropped the rear end and created a diffuser stall, therefore cutting drag. While not a new system, or one unique to Mercedes in effect, it worked particularly well.

“It’s something we’ve had for years,” says Elliott. “If you look at Red Bull, they use all their travel just in a soft spring. On a race car you got your mid-spring for ride height but you also use your rocker geometry to alter your rate so your stiffness rates change as you change ride height.

“On our car, we’ve also got something slightly cleverer than that which effectively does the same thing

.”

[PlatinumZealot]

Well on evidence the Mercedes W12 was NOT as efficient at the RB16B. Not sure why the author thinks so. It made less downforce from the floor and was hobbled by its huge wings at a number of races. Even with squatting to alter the L/D ratio it was still making big downforce compromises at lower speed tracks.

That said, I dont think the chassis characteristics under the old regs has any bearing on these new cars. It's just too widely different. A lazy turn-in on W12 doesnt mean W13 will be lazy for example.

If there are any small tricks and devices that carry over though it is hard to see what those will be. If anything the strakes at the edges of the diffusers will still be used, and some amount of treatment near the edge of the floor will carry over. I have no clue what the rearbrake ducts will look like. Maybe the teams as they normally do with rule changes will try old methods only to realize those are sub-optimal and change them to whatever they derive after a number of races.

[Henri]

Well on evidence the Mercedes W12 was NOT as efficient at the RB16B. Not sure why the author thinks so. It made less downforce from the floor and was hobbled by its huge wings at a number of races. Even with squatting to alter the L/D ratio it was still making big downforce compromises at lower speed tracks.

That said, I dont think the chassis characteristics under the old regs has any bearing on these new cars. It's just too widely different. A lazy turn-in on W12 doesnt mean W13 will be lazy for example.

If there are any small tricks and devices that carry over though it is hard to see what those will be. If anything the strakes at the edges of the diffusers will still be used, and some amount of treatment near the edge of the floor will carry over. I have no clue what the rearbrake ducts will look like. Maybe the teams as they normally do with rule changes will try old methods only to realize those are sub-optimal and change them to whatever they derive after a number of races.

Is the flow for 2022 still cut as it was for 2021 or is the flow back to the 2020 model that is sqaure ?...the w12 struggled in austria when the w11 dominanting but the last 4 races the w12 was a beast they got the setup where lewis wanted it..

[PlatinumZealot]

Gentlemen. If I may have your attention.

It is that time of the year again for innovation leaks. As usual my sources, which shallnot be named, hint at a revival of the old ways for the new Mercedes W13 suspension.

With the banning of the rear 3rd spring assembly for 2022, Mercedes designers have frantically adapted their tried and true, secretly raced, but never identified, liquid metal suspension control system. Aka the Mercury Suspension.

Some of you may remember that this system uses g-forces with the high density of mercury in small metal lines to "water-hammer" small hydraulic switches to raise, lower or stiffen the ride of the car in a passively pregrommaned manner.

Yes! Sources say it will be raced again this year at a few tracks. Mind you, some say it was used in Turkey and Brazil last year. We don't know for sure but this systems "diva" behaviour again is a sign.

Of course you know this is extreme speculation and it's not advised to discuss it at any length here so I will say no more; just something to keep in mind..

[jjn9128]

Gentlemen. If I may have your attention.

It is that time of the year again for innovation leaks. As usual my sources, which shallnot be named, hint at a revival of the old ways for the new Mercedes W13 suspension.

With the banning of the rear 3rd spring assembly for 2022, Mercedes designers have frantically adapted their tried and true, secretly raced, but never identified, liquid metal suspension control system. Aka the Mercury Suspension.

Some of you may remember that this system uses g-forces with the high density of mercury in small metal lines to "water-hammer" small hydraulic switches to raise, lower or stiffen the ride of the car in a passively pregrommaned manner.

Yes! Sources say it will be raced again this year at a few tracks. Mind you, some say it was used in Turkey and Brazil last year. We don't know for sure but this systems "diva" behaviour again is a sign.

Of course you know this is extreme speculation and it's not advised to discuss it at any length here so I will say no more; just something to keep in mind..

have they banned 3rd element? I thought they'd banned hydraulic dampers?!

[Jolle]

The W13 will be the first real new design while INEOS is part of the team (as an owner). This will mean that material knowledge of stuff where a F1 car is build of, has grown beyond what any team on the grid has access to. I wonder if we will see this influence.

[Big Tea]

Gentlemen. If I may have your attention.

It is that time of the year again for innovation leaks. As usual my sources, which shallnot be named, hint at a revival of the old ways for the new Mercedes W13 suspension.

With the banning of the rear 3rd spring assembly for 2022, Mercedes designers have frantically adapted their tried and true, secretly raced, but never identified, liquid metal suspension control system. Aka the Mercury Suspension.

Some of you may remember that this system uses g-forces with the high density of mercury in small metal lines to "water-hammer" small hydraulic switches to raise, lower or stiffen the ride of the car in a passively pregrommaned manner.

Yes! Sources say it will be raced again this year at a few tracks. Mind you, some say it was used in Turkey and Brazil last year. We don't know for sure but this systems "diva" behaviour again is a sign.

Of course you know this is extreme speculation and it's not advised to discuss it at any length here so I will say no more; just something to keep in mind..

Would not that fall under the same category as the banned 'J damper'? And also be disallowed?

[Jolle]

Gentlemen. If I may have your attention.

It is that time of the year again for innovation leaks. As usual my sources, which shallnot be named, hint at a revival of the old ways for the new Mercedes W13 suspension.

With the banning of the rear 3rd spring assembly for 2022, Mercedes designers have frantically adapted their tried and true, secretly raced, but never identified, liquid metal suspension control system. Aka the Mercury Suspension.

Some of you may remember that this system uses g-forces with the high density of mercury in small metal lines to "water-hammer" small hydraulic switches to raise, lower or stiffen the ride of the car in a passively pregrommaned manner.

Yes! Sources say it will be raced again this year at a few tracks. Mind you, some say it was used in Turkey and Brazil last year. We don't know for sure but this systems "diva" behaviour again is a sign.

Of course you know this is extreme speculation and it's not advised to discuss it at any length here so I will say no more; just something to keep in mind..

have they banned 3rd element? I thought they'd banned hydraulic dampers?!

I know they banned inertia dampers, but what would be the alternative for hydraulic dampers? Aren’t you confused with springs?

[Blackout]

The W13 will be the first real new design while INEOS is part of the team (as an owner). This will mean that material knowledge of stuff where a F1 car is build of, has grown beyond what any team on the grid has access to. I wonder if we will see this influence.

[Jolle]

The W13 will be the first real new design while INEOS is part of the team (as an owner). This will mean that material knowledge of stuff where a F1 car is build of, has grown beyond what any team on the grid has access to. I wonder if we will see this influence.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... logo18.png

True that Enstone has DuPont as a partner, but not as an owner plus, they have been partners for years… without any succes.

[Stu]

Gentlemen. If I may have your attention.

It is that time of the year again for innovation leaks. As usual my sources, which shallnot be named, hint at a revival of the old ways for the new Mercedes W13 suspension.

With the banning of the rear 3rd spring assembly for 2022, Mercedes designers have frantically adapted their tried and true, secretly raced, but never identified, liquid metal suspension control system. Aka the Mercury Suspension.

Some of you may remember that this system uses g-forces with the high density of mercury in small metal lines to "water-hammer" small hydraulic switches to raise, lower or stiffen the ride of the car in a passively pregrommaned manner.

Yes! Sources say it will be raced again this year at a few tracks. Mind you, some say it was used in Turkey and Brazil last year. We don't know for sure but this systems "diva" behaviour again is a sign.

Of course you know this is extreme speculation and it's not advised to discuss it at any length here so I will say no more; just something to keep in mind..

have they banned 3rd element? I thought they'd banned hydraulic dampers?!

Hydraulic operation of suspension units is banned, there must be a mechanical link to the rocker. Liquid mercury operation would class as hydraulic in any interpretation that I can think of.

[henry]

Gentlemen. If I may have your attention.

It is that time of the year again for innovation leaks. As usual my sources, which shallnot be named, hint at a revival of the old ways for the new Mercedes W13 suspension.

With the banning of the rear 3rd spring assembly for 2022, Mercedes designers have frantically adapted their tried and true, secretly raced, but never identified, liquid metal suspension control system. Aka the Mercury Suspension.

Some of you may remember that this system uses g-forces with the high density of mercury in small metal lines to "water-hammer" small hydraulic switches to raise, lower or stiffen the ride of the car in a passively pregrommaned manner.

Yes! Sources say it will be raced again this year at a few tracks. Mind you, some say it was used in Turkey and Brazil last year. We don't know for sure but this systems "diva" behaviour again is a sign.

Of course you know this is extreme speculation and it's not advised to discuss it at any length here so I will say no more; just something to keep in mind..

have they banned 3rd element? I thought they'd banned hydraulic dampers?!

Hydraulic operation of suspension units is banned, there must be a mechanical link to the rocker. Liquid mercury operation would class as hydraulic in any interpretation that I can think of.

I think from @PlatinumZealot’s description the system he describes might be classed as acceleration based valving, and that is also banned.

I think that people have heard that inerters are banned, thought “the third element includes an inerter”, therefore third elements are banned. We’ll probably get to see the first implementations of third springs/dampers and those same people will get excited because there’s a workaround.

[PlatinumZealot]

Gentlemen. If I may have your attention.

It is that time of the year again for innovation leaks. As usual my sources, which shallnot be named, hint at a revival of the old ways for the new Mercedes W13 suspension.

With the banning of the rear 3rd spring assembly for 2022, Mercedes designers have frantically adapted their tried and true, secretly raced, but never identified, liquid metal suspension control system. Aka the Mercury Suspension.

Some of you may remember that this system uses g-forces with the high density of mercury in small metal lines to "water-hammer" small hydraulic switches to raise, lower or stiffen the ride of the car in a passively pregrommaned manner.

Yes! Sources say it will be raced again this year at a few tracks. Mind you, some say it was used in Turkey and Brazil last year. We don't know for sure but this systems "diva" behaviour again is a sign.

Of course you know this is extreme speculation and it's not advised to discuss it at any length here so I will say no more; just something to keep in mind..

have they banned 3rd element? I thought they'd banned hydraulic dampers?!

Ah! Smart man! You saw through it quickly!

If I had said "hydraulic suspension banned" and "mecury suspension" together the joke would be shot down really fast so did my best diversion there with the the third spring. Bravo.

Mercury suspension is an annual running joke to motivate some creative discussion in the speculation threads. Speculation threads used to be where mighty creative ideas came out about what the next loophole could be. It's a good way to get forumers interested in the tech regs.

Side pod-wings
Radiative floors
Octopus exhaust
Dead-zone
Double side pods
Auto-gyro's gearbox ( remember that guy?)

Were some of the things explored in the past that sorta made their way into actual cars.

The Mercury suspension joke is effectively killed this year with the ban on Hydraulic suspension for 2022. No more loop-hole for it. It can finally be laid to rest.

[Ryar]

Gentlemen. If I may have your attention.

It is that time of the year again for innovation leaks. As usual my sources, which shallnot be named, hint at a revival of the old ways for the new Mercedes W13 suspension.

With the banning of the rear 3rd spring assembly for 2022, Mercedes designers have frantically adapted their tried and true, secretly raced, but never identified, liquid metal suspension control system. Aka the Mercury Suspension.

Some of you may remember that this system uses g-forces with the high density of mercury in small metal lines to "water-hammer" small hydraulic switches to raise, lower or stiffen the ride of the car in a passively pregrommaned manner.

Yes! Sources say it will be raced again this year at a few tracks. Mind you, some say it was used in Turkey and Brazil last year. We don't know for sure but this systems "diva" behaviour again is a sign.

Of course you know this is extreme speculation and it's not advised to discuss it at any length here so I will say no more; just something to keep in mind..

have they banned 3rd element? I thought they'd banned hydraulic dampers?!

Ah! Smart man! You saw through it quickly!

If I had said "hydraulic suspension banned" and "mecury suspension" together the joke would be shot down really fast so did my best diversion there with the the third spring. Bravo.

Mercury suspension is an annual running joke to motivate some creative discussion in the speculation threads. Speculation threads used to be where mighty creative ideas came out about what the next loophole could be. It's a good way to get forumers interested in the tech regs.

Side pod-wings
Radiative floors
Octopus exhaust
Dead-zone
Double side pods
Auto-gyro's gearbox ( remember that guy?)

Were some of the things explored in the past that sorta made their way into actual cars.

The Mercury suspension joke is effectively killed this year with the ban on Hydraulic suspension for 2022. No more loop-hole for it. It can finally be laid to rest.

What kind of trash is this? At a time when there is such a lull and the expectations are high for the upcoming cars, stuff like this is such an eyesore for anyone that comes in anticipation of some quality content.

[jjn9128]

Ah! Smart man! You saw through it quickly!

If I had said "hydraulic suspension banned" and "mecury suspension" together the joke would be shot down really fast so did my best diversion there with the the third spring. Bravo.

You're weird man