Lotus T127 Cosworth

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Mystery Steve
3
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:04 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by Mystery Steve » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:20 am

So what sounds more likely:

1) A working group that was obviously qualified enough to earn a spot on the F1 grid next year has stolen a wind tunnel model or images of a wind tunnel model, or both, and are trying to pass it off as their own.

2) The FI group realized that they were going to have to make major modifications to their wind tunnel model to accommodate the larger fuel cells, and may have decided to go in a completely different direction with their aero design anyway. And rather than completely scrap the model, they decided to sell it to the Lotus group to offset the cost of the new model, which would also benefit Lotus because at the very least they can use it to validate early CFD models which can then be expanded to accommodate the larger fuel cells.

Option 2 sounds more plausible to me...

EDIT:

Good point on the website richard...

Option 3: This is all a hoax anyway.

Option 3 being equally as likely as option 2.

Astro1
0
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:34 pm

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by Astro1 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:27 am

That is in fact the Aerolab test model.

As mentioned earlier above,

Gascoyne has interests in the Aerolab wind tunnel, the facility was used by Force India to design their car when he was working for the team. It's only natural to think that it is the base he will work form for the Lotus 2010 car.

As for how that thing will turn into a 2010 competitor is anybodies guess. That model AND IT IS IN FACT AN EXACT COPY is pointless to look at as it's a year old design and will be even older when the 2010 season rolls around.

Though if the media don't pick up on the fact Lotus stands to gain a bit of publicity with casual fans and ignorant sponsors with being "ready" so soon. :D

LotusF1
0
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:08 am

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by LotusF1 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:11 pm

Mystery Steve wrote:So what sounds more likely:

1) A working group that was obviously qualified enough to earn a spot on the F1 grid next year has stolen a wind tunnel model or images of a wind tunnel model, or both, and are trying to pass it off as their own.

2) The FI group realized that they were going to have to make major modifications to their wind tunnel model to accommodate the larger fuel cells, and may have decided to go in a completely different direction with their aero design anyway. And rather than completely scrap the model, they decided to sell it to the Lotus group to offset the cost of the new model, which would also benefit Lotus because at the very least they can use it to validate early CFD models which can then be expanded to accommodate the larger fuel cells.

Option 2 sounds more plausible to me...

EDIT:

Good point on the website richard...

Option 3: This is all a hoax anyway.

Option 3 being equally as likely as option 2.
They were told mi sept that they would participate in F1 in 2010 and a month later they have their car...sounds like they made their own design imo. Looks similar to FI, whats wrong with that? I doubt they copied anything at all...

LotusF1
0
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:08 am

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by LotusF1 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:21 pm

axle wrote:Guys honestly, it's not a copy...it is FI's actual model that FI built.
how do you know that? Do you work for FI? or FT? Cause thats the only way...

Astro1
0
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:34 pm

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by Astro1 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:38 pm

LotusF1 are you blind?

It's clearly the FI it's not "similar" IT IS IT! LOL

Fact is, they don't have a car yet. All they have is last years Force India that they will attempt to make into a 2010 competitor.

But I have no doubt that it's the same car.

axle
2
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:45 pm
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by axle » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:45 pm

LotusF1 wrote:
axle wrote:Guys honestly, it's not a copy...it is FI's actual model that FI built.
how do you know that? Do you work for FI? or FT? Cause thats the only way...
I doubt that's the ONLY way you could know...
- Axle

WhiteBlue
124
User avatar
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:58 pm
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by WhiteBlue » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:57 pm

Gascoyne sure knows how to cut the corners. :lol: :mrgreen: :D
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Jersey Tom
257
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:49 pm
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by Jersey Tom » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:59 pm

I love the folks who can eyeball a car and tell if a team's next season is going to be successful or not.

The model doesn't need to be representative of anything race-able, especially if it's a first pass. I'd rather have a simple wind tunnel model (like this one) in my first go-around to validate my CFD tools before going off the deep end in design.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

scarbs
370
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:47 am
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by scarbs » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:05 pm

I don’t here a single shred of evidence to back up this being the actual FI model. Do you think FI would let a competitor see their car? Yes the front wing is similar, but the rest of the car is different, the sidepod treatment is totally different to the humpback VJM02, there’s no undercut roll structure, so all we can say is they are following (at whatever stage of development the model was in) it used the same concept of front wing and endplate as the FI, for which isn’t doing too bad this season and its wake structures are already understood by aerolab staff. Not a bad starting point for a team in a rush to get a car ready in very limited time.
I recall the launch of the VJM02 was also claimed to be a copy, of the Mac, it is pretty obvious the car is nto a copy just shared some concept also copied by many other teams.

sesku
0
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:14 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by sesku » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:18 pm

holy sh*t...lotus release the livery!!!!

Image

haha...just kidding...
This letter is computer-generated ; no signature is required.

axle
2
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:45 pm
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by axle » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:06 pm

scarbs wrote:I don’t here a single shred of evidence to back up this being the actual FI model. Do you think FI would let a competitor see their car? Yes the front wing is similar, but the rest of the car is different, the sidepod treatment is totally different to the humpback VJM02, there’s no undercut roll structure, so all we can say is they are following (at whatever stage of development the model was in) it used the same concept of front wing and endplate as the FI, for which isn’t doing too bad this season and its wake structures are already understood by aerolab staff. Not a bad starting point for a team in a rush to get a car ready in very limited time.
I recall the launch of the VJM02 was also claimed to be a copy, of the Mac, it is pretty obvious the car is nto a copy just shared some concept also copied by many other teams.
But if you were Lotus and were going to copy, would you copy a Brawn/RB5 or an undeveloped VJM02?
It would be the first 2, which is IMO more evidence that this is the FI Windtunnel model...don't they cost a cool £1/4m to design and build?
- Axle

LotusF1
0
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:08 am

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by LotusF1 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:06 pm

scarbs wrote:I don’t here a single shred of evidence to back up this being the actual FI model. Do you think FI would let a competitor see their car? Yes the front wing is similar, but the rest of the car is different, the sidepod treatment is totally different to the humpback VJM02, there’s no undercut roll structure, so all we can say is they are following (at whatever stage of development the model was in) it used the same concept of front wing and endplate as the FI, for which isn’t doing too bad this season and its wake structures are already understood by aerolab staff. Not a bad starting point for a team in a rush to get a car ready in very limited time.
I recall the launch of the VJM02 was also claimed to be a copy, of the Mac, it is pretty obvious the car is nto a copy just shared some concept also copied by many other teams.
Applause...the only way that you guys think it might be a FI replica is by theory, otherwise axle you work for FI and have been working on next years car and maybe they look very similar...imo its totally different...

scarbs
370
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:47 am
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by scarbs » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:20 pm

Also I guess the car is at Aerolab, hence the less than pristine facilties. I am told RTN where Lotus are based is a much smarter venue...

LotusF1
0
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:08 am

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by LotusF1 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:23 pm

scarbs wrote:Also I guess the car is at Aerolab, hence the less than pristine facilties. I am told RTN where Lotus are based is a much smarter venue...
smart or not, the important thing is that they are at F1 level, which by looking at the model they are...the rest doesnt matter...

Astro1
0
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:34 pm

Re: Lotus 2010 Car

Post by Astro1 » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:52 pm

I won't mention the source, but this is an e-mail I got. Take it for what it's worth.

Thanks ________we are already aware.

Without seeing the ____________ we know that Gascoyne has interests in
the Aerolab wind tunnel, the facility used by Force India when he was
employed by them.

We know the model pictured is in fact the model used by Aerolab

Best regards