Sauber C30 Ferrari

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N12ck
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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by N12ck » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:15 pm

ESPImperium wrote:
Blackout wrote:
n smikle wrote:it's just a mock-up guys.. That aint no C30.
The mock up is certainly very close, if not identical, to the real chassis.
And this incomplete chassis is too 'interesting' to be a false approximative chassis...
It isnt a mock up. Sauber have traditionally had chassis number 01 as the one they do the seat fit in. Mercedes are a team that do the same.

Some teams use mockups like McLaren and Team Lotus, others use chassis 01 as the real deal as then they can make changes to 02 and onward if needed. As you can see they have already changes the air box from the BMW era traditional straight triangle to the short tubby triangle.

The chassis is about 5-7 days away from being finalised by those pics, they have probably a couple of refinements id recon to do, mainly arround the airbox would be my hunch.
whats with the fat engine cover/ air intake, are they hiding something??
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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by Byronrhys » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:50 pm

Holm86 wrote:Are they hiding an extra air-intake underneath the airbox with all that tape?? Perhaps a cooling intake for the KERS?
This is James key so I bet there is a cooling inlet there, look at his last design, the VJM-03 and there is a small inlet in the very position so I wouldn't be shocked, and I like the Mclaren-ish Air intake.

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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by ESPImperium » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:18 pm

As said before, that tape is hiding something, aero related in its secondary function, but in its primary function i recon that there will be a intake like what the Brawn BGP001 had for the first few days of testing in 2009 where the air was to go down and cool the KERS system.

Ferarri in the F60 put the power cells beneath the drivers seat, on whitch Kimi almost singed his arse on a couple of occasions when he used his KERS too much. I have a feeling that Sauber are putting the batterys at the back of the drivers seat, but with a bulkhead between the seat and the bateries, posibly before the fuel tank. Inelegant and inpracticle area to put them, but posibly ideal with the standard weight distrubuton. One other area they could be putting them is beneath the fuel tank to improve their CoG, and when the fuel goes down in races, this could be an advantage in their design, probably more elegant than having them stacked vertacally.

The team that puts their bateries as low and as centrally as posible will have an advantage next year, as will the smallest, relyable and most powerful bateries as well.

With this limited impression, im impressed with the C30.

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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by ell66 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:48 pm

ESPImperium wrote:As said before, that tape is hiding something, aero related in its secondary function, but in its primary function i recon that there will be a intake like what the Brawn BGP001 had for the first few days of testing in 2009 where the air was to go down and cool the KERS system.

Ferarri in the F60 put the power cells beneath the drivers seat, on whitch Kimi almost singed his arse on a couple of occasions when he used his KERS too much. I have a feeling that Sauber are putting the batterys at the back of the drivers seat, but with a bulkhead between the seat and the bateries, posibly before the fuel tank. Inelegant and inpracticle area to put them, but posibly ideal with the standard weight distrubuton. One other area they could be putting them is beneath the fuel tank to improve their CoG, and when the fuel goes down in races, this could be an advantage in their design, probably more elegant than having them stacked vertacally.

The team that puts their bateries as low and as centrally as posible will have an advantage next year, as will the smallest, relyable and most powerful bateries as well.

With this limited impression, im impressed with the C30.
brwawn never used kers at anypoint.......

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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by Byronrhys » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:29 am

ell66 wrote:
ESPImperium wrote:As said before, that tape is hiding something, aero related in its secondary function, but in its primary function i recon that there will be a intake like what the Brawn BGP001 had for the first few days of testing in 2009 where the air was to go down and cool the KERS system.

Ferarri in the F60 put the power cells beneath the drivers seat, on whitch Kimi almost singed his arse on a couple of occasions when he used his KERS too much. I have a feeling that Sauber are putting the batterys at the back of the drivers seat, but with a bulkhead between the seat and the bateries, posibly before the fuel tank. Inelegant and inpracticle area to put them, but posibly ideal with the standard weight distrubuton. One other area they could be putting them is beneath the fuel tank to improve their CoG, and when the fuel goes down in races, this could be an advantage in their design, probably more elegant than having them stacked vertacally.

The team that puts their bateries as low and as centrally as posible will have an advantage next year, as will the smallest, relyable and most powerful bateries as well.

With this limited impression, im impressed with the C30.
brwawn never used kers at anypoint.......
He never said they ran kers, they just had a slot in the air-box to cool the would have been kers.

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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by timbo » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:58 pm

ESPImperium wrote:As said before, that tape is hiding something, aero related in its secondary function, but in its primary function i recon that there will be a intake like what the Brawn BGP001 had for the first few days of testing in 2009 where the air was to go down and cool the KERS system.
Hmm.
http://www.f1technical.net/news/15792

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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by ESPImperium » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:17 pm

Byronrhys wrote:
ell66 wrote:
ESPImperium wrote:As said before, that tape is hiding something, aero related in its secondary function, but in its primary function i recon that there will be a intake like what the Brawn BGP001 had for the first few days of testing in 2009 where the air was to go down and cool the KERS system.

Ferarri in the F60 put the power cells beneath the drivers seat, on whitch Kimi almost singed his arse on a couple of occasions when he used his KERS too much. I have a feeling that Sauber are putting the batterys at the back of the drivers seat, but with a bulkhead between the seat and the bateries, posibly before the fuel tank. Inelegant and inpracticle area to put them, but posibly ideal with the standard weight distrubuton. One other area they could be putting them is beneath the fuel tank to improve their CoG, and when the fuel goes down in races, this could be an advantage in their design, probably more elegant than having them stacked vertacally.

The team that puts their bateries as low and as centrally as posible will have an advantage next year, as will the smallest, relyable and most powerful bateries as well.

With this limited impression, im impressed with the C30.
brwawn never used kers at anypoint.......
He never said they ran kers, they just had a slot in the air-box to cool the would have been kers.
Exactly. The BGP001 was built to be the Honda RA109 that would have had the Honda Hydrolic/Electric KERS unit that would hav been coupled to the Honda RA809E powerplant. In the air box there was a hole that was later covered up as it wasnt needed as they ran the Merceded FO108W powerplant and no KERS. That hole was for cooling the Brackley Honda KERS system. Honda deleveloped a KERS system in Japan and the F1 team developed another in Brackley. Duplication of technology, but the Brackely KERS was for F1 and was a bespoke development part for the RA809E powerplant.

I am thinking that there is a hole simmilar to what the BGP001 had. As Byronrhys pointed out it is a very James Key design, his cars for Jaguar and then Red Bull/Toro Rosso in the R5-RB1-STR1 car also had a air intake arround the air box as well, the STR1 had a more pronounced one as the STR1 was running a 16700RPM limited Cosworth TJ2005/12 V10 in the back, so the only way to limit its power was to decrease the size of the airbox its self.

This is the picture i have spent an hour looking for on my computer:

Image

The little hole above Jensons head, but below the air box, between the silver insulation is what i think the C30 could have.

I think the C30 could be the most exiting prospect for 2011.

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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by forty-two » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:25 pm

ESPImperium wrote:Ferarri in the F60 put the power cells beneath the drivers seat, on whitch Kimi almost singed his arse on a couple of occasions when he used his KERS too much. I have a feeling that Sauber are putting the batterys at the back of the drivers seat, but with a bulkhead between the seat and the bateries, posibly before the fuel tank. Inelegant and inpracticle area to put them, but posibly ideal with the standard weight distrubuton. One other area they could be putting them is beneath the fuel tank to improve their CoG, and when the fuel goes down in races, this could be an advantage in their design, probably more elegant than having them stacked vertacally.

The team that puts their bateries as low and as centrally as posible will have an advantage next year, as will the smallest, relyable and most powerful bateries as well.
As you pointed out in the first quoted sentence, batteries get hot, sometimes very hot. Would it really be sensible to put them right next to 100 kilos of Fuel? I know that F1 design is all about compromises, but that sounds like sailing VERY close to the wind to me.

Personally I'd follow McLaren or Ferrari's design. True a burnt driver's bum is bad, but the driver is unlikely to actually explode in a fireball if overheated!
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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by marcush. » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:09 pm

you can bet these batteries are very hot all the time when the car is running at speed ...cool them with air and your car is a moving brickwall as air is not very efficient as a cooling medium...cool them with fluid ..and you need a separate cooling circuit as the engine coolant temperature will do no good to the battery temp..maybe it´s time to add AC to F1 :mrgreen:

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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by FrukostScones » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:22 pm

Is it confirmed that Sauber will run with (Ferrari)-KERS ?
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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by raymondu999 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:43 pm

I wasn't aware there was even a confirmation they'd run KERS at all... was there?
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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by mith » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:18 am

Nope, but so far Lotus and HRT are the only teams, which announced, they won't use it, so everyone is expecting every other team to have KERS on board.

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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by ESPImperium » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:42 am

Team Lotus, Virgin and Hispania will all not run KERS.

Team Lotus as they just want to make the 2011 car good and relyable, but didnt rule out using it later in the season if they can fit it in.

Virgin because of the cost to them, they are on a $55m budget and things are as tight as they can be, they want as much money avalable as posible fopr upgrades.

Hispania simply beacuse of the same reason as Virgin, and also because they dont have enough space as they could be running with the F110 in in a revised spec for 2011.

All the other teams are expected to run their engine suppliers propriety KERS in 2011, exept Williams who will use their own battery system.

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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by mith » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:07 pm

Oh, right, I've forgotten about Virgin.

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Re: Sauber-Ferrari C30

Post by Byronrhys » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:43 am

New Sauber not a revolution

BMW has been dropped from the team name, colors are clean but to be similar as last year - looking forward to testing

When Peter Sauber the anticipation rises for the new Formula 1 season

(Motor-Total.com) - While the BMW Sauber team has now formally withdrawn from the name, but the visual appearance of the Swiss is in the coming season are likely to be similar as 2010. "I liked the old design," team boss Peter Sauber revealed in an interview with 'Motor-Total.com', without revealing details or set terms of appearance. However the Sauber fans either technically or visually expect a revolution: ".. The car will not differ very much from the old color and design will also be similar to white leaves the color," said Sauber.

But in 2011 more sponsors logos affixed to the chassis, especially that of Telmex. Economically, the team is much better than we were last year, so looking forward to the upcoming Sauber test drives. But he knows that there are these only half the truth.. "I remember the year when we were at the test well, but suddenly we were not as good It was by far not only the fuel difference, the known yes. "

"We look forward to the first drive, because now comes the time when it is waiting for the first test. As the anticipation is over and you're glad when it starts again," said the Swiss, whose cars for the first time completely under the direction created by James Key. But even if the car approaches are long finished, it is clean difficult to assess the wind tunnel data: "you are never satisfied, because more is always better."

"It will definitely be exciting unlikely, because the output losses are enormous, if you omit the double diffuser," he says. "Now is the question?. What percentage of the teams are again in order to get at the old level of this I can not develop a feeling for real value you get from the competition so do not grope you to the first test - or perhaps later - largely in the dark. "

At least Sauber is even better again in the rhythm, because a year ago he took charge of the team only to save after the departure of BMW and the fiasco of the mysterious investor Qadbak the Hinwil. "I'm back into it after I had four years break. But this is only limited comparable because the daily operations in Hinwil now is done by management," said Sauber. "Obviously the feeling is different, since this time last year was all very, very difficult."