2025 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 04 - 06

[venkyhere]

Jolyon Palmer - the supreme authority on all matters racing.
Right ?

[AngusF1]

It is of significant interest that Mr Verstappen, an expert racing driver, knowing that the lead car ahead of him would brake hard to warm up its brakes, and knowing that he would have trouble seeing through the spray, did not consider driving some distance to the side, out of the spray. Not only would that have cleared his vision, but it would have placed him beside, and not directly behind, the heavily braking car in front. That way when he got distracted talking on the radio, or messing about with buttons, or whatever daft thing he was doing, it wouldn’t have mattered that he wasn’t paying attention!

It was Verstappen’s lack of appropriate caution in this matter which resulted in his erratic late braking, near-collision with the race and championship leader, and ultimate passing of the lead car.

While no penalty should have been levied against any driver, because no collision occurred and all drivers went on with their race, if a penalty was applied to any driver it should have been to Verstappen.

[TimW]

Erratic driving is banned under any circumstances(and behind the SC) and has been so for years before Bottas was on the grid. Drivers(including the leader)are allowed to accelerate and brake behind the SC in order to warm the brakes, and when the SC turns off its lights. Please stop making up rules that don't exist. Piastri accelerated BEFORE the SC turned off its lights, and he braked at almost the same time as the lights were turned off. You are making up a false scenario that did not occur.

I suggest you read the regulations:
https://www.fia.com/system/files/docume ... -04-30.pdf

55.15 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message “SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP” will be sent ..... In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.

This is what the rules say when the safety car lights are on:

55.5 No car may be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person at any time whilst the safety car is deployed. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry road, or the pit lane.

Nothing specific to acceleration or braking, only general erratic driving.

I did not make up a rule, I just actually checked the regulations before posting.

[Alesi-J]

It is of significant interest that Mr Verstappen, an expert racing driver, knowing that the lead car ahead of him would brake hard to warm up its brakes, and knowing that he would have trouble seeing through the spray, did not consider driving some distance to the side, out of the spray. Not only would that have cleared his vision, but it would have placed him beside, and not directly behind, the heavily braking car in front. That way when he got distracted talking on the radio, or messing about with buttons, or whatever daft thing he was doing, it wouldn’t have mattered that he wasn’t paying attention!

It was Verstappen’s lack of appropriate caution in this matter which resulted in his erratic late braking, near-collision with the race and championship leader, and ultimate passing of the lead car.

While no penalty should have been levied against any driver, because no collision occurred and all drivers went on with their race, if a penalty was applied to any driver it should have been to Verstappen.

Expert drivers Gasly, Stroll and Hulkenburg were 3 wide taking action to avoid collisions as a result of Piastri's action. Hulk went on the grass stating "That was a nasty surprise" - Gasly "That was crazy." Are all of these drivers to blame as well?

[ENGINE TUNER]

Erratic driving is banned under any circumstances(and behind the SC) and has been so for years before Bottas was on the grid. Drivers(including the leader)are allowed to accelerate and brake behind the SC in order to warm the brakes, and when the SC turns off its lights. Please stop making up rules that don't exist. Piastri accelerated BEFORE the SC turned off its lights, and he braked at almost the same time as the lights were turned off. You are making up a false scenario that did not occur.

I suggest you read the regulations:
https://www.fia.com/system/files/docume ... -04-30.pdf

55.15 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message “SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP” will be sent ..... In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.

This is what the rules say when the safety car lights are on:

55.5 No car may be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person at any time whilst the safety car is deployed. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry road, or the pit lane.

Nothing specific to acceleration or braking, only general erratic driving.

I did not make up a rule, I just actually checked the regulations before posting.

I applaud you for actually looking up and posting the regulations unlike most of this forum. Please watch Palmers video analysis, Piastri did nothing erratic, here merely accelerated and braked in a straight line, and he braked just before the lights went out on the safety car and did nothing differently than on the previous restart. It is a simple matter of acknowledging whether the leading driver is allowed to warm brakes and tires behind the safety car(with the lights on), yes they are.

[AngusF1]

It is of significant interest that Mr Verstappen, an expert racing driver, knowing that the lead car ahead of him would brake hard to warm up its brakes, and knowing that he would have trouble seeing through the spray, did not consider driving some distance to the side, out of the spray. Not only would that have cleared his vision, but it would have placed him beside, and not directly behind, the heavily braking car in front. That way when he got distracted talking on the radio, or messing about with buttons, or whatever daft thing he was doing, it wouldn’t have mattered that he wasn’t paying attention!

It was Verstappen’s lack of appropriate caution in this matter which resulted in his erratic late braking, near-collision with the race and championship leader, and ultimate passing of the lead car.

While no penalty should have been levied against any driver, because no collision occurred and all drivers went on with their race, if a penalty was applied to any driver it should have been to Verstappen.

Expert drivers Gasly, Stroll and Hulkenburg were 3 wide taking action to avoid collisions as a result of Piastri's action. Hulk went on the grass stating "That was a nasty surprise" - Gasly "That was crazy." Are all of these drivers to blame as well?

Yes, precisely. Piastri was entirely within norms as the lead driver to warm up his brakes and back up the pack, just like he did on the previous laps and like every driver does every time a safety car is released. The drivers trying to run up his backside in poor visibility conditions were insufficiently cautious.

[basti313]

Yes, precisely. Piastri was entirely within norms as the lead driver to warm up his brakes and back up the pack

Was he?
Again...I never saw anyone warming brakes behind the SC by just hitting them on the straight. Usually peaople leave room, accelerate and then hit the brake once they are close to the SC again.

[Alesi-J]

Yes, precisely. Piastri was entirely within norms as the lead driver to warm up his brakes and back up the pack, just like he did on the previous laps and like every driver does every time a safety car is released. The drivers trying to run up his backside in poor visibility conditions were insufficiently cautious.

The rule was created to prevent drivers from doing precisely what Piastri did yet you are blaming drivers who he caused to almost collide.. You stand quite alone on this position.

[TimW]

Speed trace from lap 19, 20 and 21(blue trace). Big dip below 60 is what we are discussing.

[hollus]

I think the point missed by some is that the leading car is allowed to do whatever (somewhat safely) to warm his brakes when behind the safety car, no one is racing then.
But once the safety car is gone, he controls the pace, we are in racing conditions. He can floor it when he wants, the rest have to race him, even if thay cannot pass him, they are racing him (or the guy in front) whether fast or slow. And he can control the pace, all will go as slow as he wants, but he can do that by slowing down progressively. Slowing down quickly from 210 to 60, that is the erratic part. Slowing gradually from 210 to 60, no problem, go to 30 if you then wish.

A bit of reductio ad absurdum: Once the SC is gone, the leading car controls the pace, but he cannot be overtaken. But he also doesn't have a light that says "now, race!", not does he announce it on the radio. No, at some point, he goes from controlled pace to race pace, and they all then have to go to race page. Can he then, after going to race pace, slow suddenly again, except for expectable corner taking lines? No! Or course not, once he goes fast, he goes fast, because if he slowed, all would crash or go off course behind. (end of r.a.a.)

Well, that first slam of the brakes is in reality no different from that hypotetical second slam of the brakes. Both are equally "erratic" if they are sudden, both happen under identical race rules and conditions.

[ENGINE TUNER]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/new-piast ... e-analysed

[hollus]

I see your point. Still:
Piastri slammed the brakes under racing conditions.
A penalty doesn’t automatically follow, but certainly becomes a possibility.

[DDopey]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/new-piast ... e-analysed

Jolyon also says in his analysis that Piastri did that every round at the same point according to his data. Seeing the graph above this is not correct. Jolyon self admitted he is not objective in situations where Max is involved.
He does not like him.