2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by Just_a_fan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:55 pm

There is basically one way, strategically, to win a race. Strategies will come together and everyone will do the same thing. It's what always happens.

Refuelling isn't a panacea, it's just an added, and unnecessary, risk to the pit crews.

You want "better" racing? Figure out a way to allow multiple lines around circuits. Adding banking to key corners, for example, allows differing lines in to, through and out of the corner.
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by NathanOlder » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:07 pm

At this rate it will end up like the WRX , having a joker lap passing through a longer part of the track.

Its basically all fake things added to help improve the show, like DRS and it seems most hate DRS, I for one think its a good thing and I'm also glad its going to be stronger next year.
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by Just_a_fan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:10 pm

It's not about having gimmicks as you suggest. It's about being able to take different lines without time penalty. F1 cars can't follow closely in high speed corners because of the very nature of F1 cars today. So you either change the cars - make them much lower in downforce for example - or you make the tracks allow for closer racing. DRS exists because the cars can't follow closely enough to get in to the tow naturally. It's a sticking plaster.

Make the corners that matter slightly banked and you can either run around on the banking, or take the "normal" line. If both give the same lap time there is no artificial benefit like with DRS. What there is, is a chance for drivers to use their skill to use the track to their advantage.
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by NathanOlder » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:34 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:10 pm
It's not about having gimmicks as you suggest. It's about being able to take different lines without time penalty. F1 cars can't follow closely in high speed corners because of the very nature of F1 cars today. So you either change the cars - make them much lower in downforce for example - or you make the tracks allow for closer racing. DRS exists because the cars can't follow closely enough to get in to the tow naturally. It's a sticking plaster.

Make the corners that matter slightly banked and you can either run around on the banking, or take the "normal" line. If both give the same lap time there is no artificial benefit like with DRS. What there is, is a chance for drivers to use their skill to use the track to their advantage.
I can't see how that can be done, would have to make every run off area banked as well to make it safe.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by Just_a_fan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:50 pm

Depends how much banking is required to make it work. If it's only 5 degrees, then banking run off would be easy. If it's 30 degrees, then yes, it's probably a no-go. Although Indy et al race on banked tracks without run off areas...
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by NathanOlder » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:59 pm

Are you referring to Ovals ?
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by Big Tea » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:25 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:50 pm
Depends how much banking is required to make it work. If it's only 5 degrees, then banking run off would be easy. If it's 30 degrees, then yes, it's probably a no-go. Although Indy et al race on banked tracks without run off areas...
Not disagreeing with you, but if the track is banked, then surely it is giving the same advantage to both cars?
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by NathanOlder » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:59 pm

I guess he would mean that the outside line would be banked or banked more than the inside.
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by Just_a_fan » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:55 am

The idea is to have two lines that allow both cars to maximize lap time. Go wide on a current track, you lose time. You go wide because you can't follow close on line. It's just an idea. It's something different to the same old stuff we've had before.
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by henry » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:26 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:55 am
The idea is to have two lines that allow both cars to maximize lap time. Go wide on a current track, you lose time. You go wide because you can't follow close on line. It's just an idea. It's something different to the same old stuff we've had before.
I think they tried some of this at Sepang. A banked corner onto the last straight and adverse camber on the corner before the finish. I seem to remember it had only a small benefit.

I think a problem with such attempts is the “rubbering in” process. Unless the differing lines both,or all, get rubbered in to the same extent there’s always going to be one that’s better and the likelihood is the other will get marbled and fall even further behind.

Thermal degradation tyres, as opposed to mechanical war, have improved matters a bit. But once a race is underway the difference between the “normal” line and the rest of the track gets worse and worse. See Hamilton vs Verstappen at COTA.

The only way I can see to improve this is rock hard tyres. 12 sets per season not 12 per race weekend. That, however, does away with pit stops, the TV directors’ favourite. It also negates the value of Friday practise sessions and the speculation that follows. The aero would still be a problem but at least cars could run two abreast through corners.
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by Big Tea » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:01 pm

Would it be heresy to suggest that maybe more low speed corners and complexes could help?
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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by siskue2005 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:32 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:55 pm
There is basically one way, strategically, to win a race. Strategies will come together and everyone will do the same thing. It's what always happens.

Refuelling isn't a panacea, it's just an added, and unnecessary, risk to the pit crews.

You want "better" racing? Figure out a way to allow multiple lines around circuits. Adding banking to key corners, for example, allows differing lines in to, through and out of the corner.
ok i agree

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Re: 2018 Mexico Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 26-28 October

Post by strad » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:11 pm

It's not just a matter of banking. We need wider tracks and corners to allow a second line. I don't see the runoff needing to be changed at all. Or make the cars narrower. :wink:
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