Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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raymondu999
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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I think Red Bull have actually undone themselves this year. They have supreme downforce, yes, and that allows them to go super quick in the fast corners especially. But it seems that with these new Pirellis, this is just stretching them under load and chewing them up, overloading the Pirellis. Hence why their race pace in tracks such as Silverstone & Spain, ironically, have been lackluster.
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RB7ate9
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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raymondu999 wrote:I think Red Bull have actually undone themselves this year. They have supreme downforce, yes, and that allows them to go super quick in the fast corners especially. But it seems that with these new Pirellis, this is just stretching them under load and chewing them up, overloading the Pirellis. Hence why their race pace in tracks such as Silverstone & Spain, ironically, have been lackluster.
That's something I haven't considered before. If there is so much down-force designed into the car, then the consistent load on the tires may be higher than others, hampering their long-term race pace.

What is the fuel load requirement for qualifying? For practice? If what I'm thinking is happening, then Red Bull may compromise race-simulation data from tires during qualifying for pole position. Lower fuel loads means pole position, but it won't be representative of race pace and be a gamble in regards to tire degradation.

Am I daft? Will high-speed corners in Hungary be a detriment to RBR UNLESS Vettel can get ahead or Webber (and a swift kick in the rear) has a good start and clears the field?

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raymondu999
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Huh? There is no way anyone (this year) will carry enough fuel for more than 1 lap in qualifying. 1 outlap, 1 flying, and 1 inlap on fumes will be all they're carrying.
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HampusA
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Ferrari won´t be able to threat RBR in Q though.

Last year it was a full second. This year i´m guessing atleast 5 tenths.
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beelsebob
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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raymondu999 wrote:Huh? There is no way anyone (this year) will carry enough fuel for more than 1 lap in qualifying. 1 outlap, 1 flying, and 1 inlap on fumes will be all they're carrying.
Why do you say that? This is certainly not what we saw at several places this year, with tyres taking several laps to switch on.

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raymondu999
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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I should have rephrased. What I meant is, no one in their right minds would carry more fuel than just what is enough; RB7ate9 seems to be implying that they're doing 2009-style race-fuel qualifying?
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Redragon
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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I just want to point out Silverstone was Red Bull ground and Ferrari won.
My bet Webber victory, he is full of confident. But Alonso will be up there chasing victory.

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HampusA
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Doubt it. And i´m an Alonso fan.
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sriraj1031
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Redragon wrote:I just want to point out Silverstone was Red Bull ground and Ferrari won.
My bet Webber victory, he is full of confident. But Alonso will be up there chasing victory.

IMHO, Ferrari won cause of horrendous pit stop by Redbull otherwise Vettel would have won

Phillyred
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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I believe Lewis will be top 3 in qualifying and finish decidedly lower in the race. The mp4-26 seems to be too hard on the Pirelli's esp. in warmer conditions and with Hamilton's aggressive driving style it will cause early pitstops and loss of track position. It'd be nice to see a race won/lost on the track instead of in the pit lane.

RB7ate9
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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raymondu999 wrote:I should have rephrased. What I meant is, no one in their right minds would carry more fuel than just what is enough; RB7ate9 seems to be implying that they're doing 2009-style race-fuel qualifying?
That's what I was wondering about. I was wondering if Red Bull's tire-calculations may be partly eschewed from different fuel loads for qualifying compared to other teams. But since it sounds like pretty much all teams run similar fuel loads ("just what is enough") I suppose this is not the case.

RB7ate9
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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sriraj1031 wrote:
Redragon wrote:I just want to point out Silverstone was Red Bull ground and Ferrari won.
My bet Webber victory, he is full of confident. But Alonso will be up there chasing victory.

IMHO, Ferrari won cause of horrendous pit stop by Redbull otherwise Vettel would have won
For the first half of the season, Ferrari was seen pitting at the same time as Red Bull. I can remember clearly on one occasion where Alonso pipped Webber in the pits as a last minute decision by Ferrari and made it stick.

Whatever works.

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raymondu999
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Actually I remember saying it back then; and I'll say it again. I think RB miscalculated their Silverstone setup. They had too much downforce on! They were going through the first left right in Maggotts, as well as the Abbey right-hander (Turn 1) flat, with the DRS enabled! This would've meant that in the race (where DRS had to be off, giving them MUCH more downforce) they'd have way too much grip, and a shedload of drag to deal with on the straights.
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RB7ate9
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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raymondu999 wrote:Actually I remember saying it back then; and I'll say it again. I think RB miscalculated their Silverstone setup. They had too much downforce on! They were going through the first left right in Maggotts, as well as the Abbey right-hander (Turn 1) flat, with the DRS enabled! This would've meant that in the race (where DRS had to be off, giving them MUCH more downforce) they'd have way too much grip, and a shedload of drag to deal with on the straights.
I didn't know you said it back then 'cause I would've agreed with you then as well as now: RBR seems to take the gamble that being on pole will gear them to a win. It works for Vettel, but Webber can't make that first run to the corner stick (as usual...sigh and a grr). I will be VERY interested if the team keeps with the same strategy or sacrifices pole for better race setups!

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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I think RedBull will be overhauled again. The car is just not providing enough of a cushion for its drivers as it once was in the early parts of the season. Vettel and Webbers are guys that need that cushion. So yeah, IMO the RedBull needs to get even faster to prevent an upsurge from Mclaren and Ferrari.