Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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That would still give away the lead for no reason and wrongly assuming that the super softs were faster at that time, when in reality they were much slower. Jenson was cutting into Hamilton's lead like a hot knife through butter as soon as Jenson put on the softs. No way was Hamilton going to win with that.
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marcush.
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Button claiming he was a bit worried about the soft set of tires as he had difficulties to bring them up to temperature.
Just why didn´t MCL put Hamilton not on the softs ..he clearly is much more at ease with warming up tires..clearly they wanted to split their chances but why not the other ways round?

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Javert
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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I think that Hamilton couldn't make the softs last 30 laps

So McL went for super-softs hoping he could put a decent advantage, completing the race with new softs so he could have overtaken Vettel and Button.

The facts says that, in those conditions, super-softs were slower than softs and softs suffered low degradation: but no way to know that ...

beelsebob
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Javert wrote:I think that Hamilton couldn't make the softs last 30 laps

So McL went for super-softs hoping he could put a decent advantage, completing the race with new softs so he could have overtaken Vettel and Button.

The facts says that, in those conditions, super-softs were slower than softs and softs suffered low degradation: but no way to know that ...
He didn't have to – he had to make them last 25, and given that he'd already made super softs last 19 earlier in the race, it's hardly unlikely that he can do that.

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Javert
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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beelsebob wrote: He didn't have to – he had to make them last 25, and given that he'd already made super softs last 19 earlier in the race, it's hardly unlikely that he can do that.
Said that, McL strategy with Ham was obviously wrong

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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Javert wrote:
beelsebob wrote: He didn't have to – he had to make them last 25, and given that he'd already made super softs last 19 earlier in the race, it's hardly unlikely that he can do that.
Said that, McL strategy with Ham was obviously wrong
Dont think so, at that time it was quite sure it would rain and it is quite plausible they expected another shower to come over the circuit, too bad for them this shower barely lasted 3 laps.
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Traction
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Here is a great article from James Allen summarizing the whole tyre issue...makes for good reading with a chart at the end for lap times. Note how dramatically some of the drivers drop off while some stay consistent as ever...

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/08/m ... m-hungary/
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Javert wrote:I think that Hamilton couldn't make the softs last 30 laps

So McL went for super-softs hoping he could put a decent advantage, completing the race with new softs so he could have overtaken Vettel and Button.


The facts says that, in those conditions, super-softs were slower than softs and softs suffered low degradation: but no way to know that ...
His engineer asked him to make the super softs last 30 laps, so his engineers thought he could make them last thirty laps.
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Javert
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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n smikle wrote: His engineer asked him to make the super softs last 30 laps, so his engineers thought he could make them last thirty laps.
A bit optimistic don't you think ? :mrgreen:

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Yeah the softs were a no-brainer - Australia 2010... Track position is king then tyre life/speed.
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Anyway... the FIA are doing a horrible job of capturing the midfield action. It's like I was only aware of the top 5.
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Richard
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Traction wrote:Here is a great article from James Allen summarizing the whole tyre issue...makes for good reading with a chart at the end for lap times. Note how dramatically some of the drivers drop off while some stay consistent as ever...

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/08/m ... m-hungary/
Thanks for pointing us to that article. James Allen always does a good job of breaking the strategies down into simple parts, he also seems to have good inside information, such as the influence of wind on hitting the rev limiter on the pit straight

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Shrieker
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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My take on the tyre situation:

After Hamilton and Button made their stops on lap 40 and 42, Lewis was 7 seconds or so ahead. Now the idea with the softs vs. super softs is that you use the speed advantage the super softs do have (which is a fact).

But for some reason (2 possible reasons, to be precise) Lewis was slower on the super soft tyre than Jenson, whom was on softs. There can be 2 reasons for this^^.

1- Technically (because of track conditions) the soft tyres weren't fast enough.

2- When Hamilton's side of the garage realised Button was going to try and make it to the end on the softs, they decided to do the same with Lewis whom was on super softs. So they asked Lewis to drive slower and preserve them to the end.

From a strategic pow, 2 is...well...flawed. Super softs simply have no chance of making that distance while keeping a reasonable pace. So if I were in their boots, I would never have tried to do that (assuming that's what they attempted at).

Now that the 2nd reason is out of the way, let's have a look at the first. As a team member (strategist, race engineer etc.) I want to make my driver win the race. I have put him on super softs, to make him push to open a pitstop worth of gap from another driver who is on softs and isn't stopping again. But even though my driver is pushing, the one in second place is actually closing the gap, on -which are supossed to be- slower tires !

Now I hear some of you whispering "hindsight", but actually these were going through my mind prior to Hamilton spinning. I (and I'm sure many other people) knew that the best thing to do at that point was to put Hamilton on soft tyres before the pursuers had a chance to close whatever advantage he had in hand (~7 seconds it was), and then ask him to push and overtake.

But form a different pow, the team were probably anticipating rain so maybe that's why they kept Hamilton out. It's worth mentioning that Hamilton ended his own chances when he spun and made a dangerous recovery. As soon as I saw that, I knew what was on the cards. Hamilton still could've won without the spin. Or with soft tyres instead of super softs on lap 40. In which case he'd have had to preserve the tyres 2 laps more than Button did :wink:
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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Mathematically, as I posted above, super softs makes no sense if the other guy has no more pitstops and is on softs...the cross over point is actually very close on the two tyres.. more so than hard soft.
Last edited by Steven on Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: No need to quote the entire previous post
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Ray
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Re: Hungarian GP 2011 - Hungaroring

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After watching the race (finally!) it's a damn shame Lewis didn't win that race. The first few laps where he was chasing Vettel were amazing. The car control the front runners have is beyond belief. He should have had a much better finish, but Button drove a beautiful race to a well deserved win. Lewis will definitely be a threat the rest of this year and with any luck we might get changing conditions in Spa. I personally would like to see a dry to wet race just to see Lewis possibly charge through the field. Great race!