Korean GP 2011 - Yeong-Am International Circuit

[raymondu999]

I think it boils down to similar issues like Trulli is having. Trulli's power steering is too assistive and he gets much less of an analog feedback and so his precision and instinctiveness can't help his qualifying. I don't think Mark has really been able to garner the desired feedback from the Pirellis yet. He mentioned in Singapore that the team made setup changes to help him; but I think that only helped him preserve tyres; and to be fair he's a LOT closer to Vettel now than he was at the start of the year in terms of tyre wear.

But I think he hasn't got the feedback he needs from the Pirellis. In high speed; when the car pretty much has a lot of grip everywhere, and not enough braking/torque to break traction and lock/wheelspin he doesn't mind, but I think if you look at a lot of the races this year in the slow stuff; where it's the tyres doing the job of gripping he's not really delivering - he's getting on the power too hard and causing wheelspin, he's getting on the brakes too hard and locking, and generally not carrying good apex speed. Which really puzzles me; as he is absolutely MIGHTY through the Norgard chicane in Nurburgring and the fiddly chicane at Barcelona.

Also another theory I've thrown around for a while now is that Mark; as by his own admission; prefers rear stability and less tail-happiness in a car. Seb on the other hand likes a strong front. I wonder if Mark is not too fond of getting oversteer from opening DRS too early, and is protecting himself from that by adding a bit of stability in the setup to the point of understeer. Bruno Senna was amazed at how much understeer Mark had in China qualifying this year too

It should be noted that these theories are purely conjecture and speculation

[jamsbong]

I guess Tire wear may be less of an issue now for Webber. It is puzzling for me that Webber is still not on par with Vettel. Perhaps the oversteery behavior could be the problem. DRS makes the car's rear really unstable. I find that Mark let go of the trottle quite a lot when the car oversteer. In the case of Hamilton and Vettel, they try to live with it by lifting as little as possible and compensate with minimal steering corrections. This ensures that the speed is not greatly lost. Example, Vettel in Monza quali this year. Hamilton's 1st year in Monaco Quali.

[raymondu999]

I think Hamilton and Vettel, if faced with some oversteer; given that it's in the right direction, will go with the movement and slide the car into position for the next straight or corner. Button and Webber instead think of eliminating the moment first; and THEN they get back to their lap.

A prime example for Hamilton in this regard would be the Korean pole lap he put in. At the sharper corners he was using the rear to rotate the car beautifully into position for the straights. Another example would be Vettel's pole lap in Monaco 2011; where he rotated the car beautifully on the 2nd apex of the Nouvelle chicane, and in Hungary 2010 where he rotated the car on the first apex in the Turn 6/7 chicane.

[jamsbong]

That's right. It is pretty fancy to be able to do a control oversteer on an F1 car. I could remember Kimi did something like that in Suzuka during his Mclaren days.

[raymondu999]

Kimi was always an oversteer lover too IIRC.

Thinking on this issue; Mark Hughes in Autosport said a while back that to him; it looked as if the Pirellis were good in longitudinal grip or lateral grip; but it was shite at providing both at once. Watching on boards from this year; Mark still likes to have the brakes on at corner entry until the apex; rolling off them slowly until completely lifting the brakes on the moment he chooses to exit on power. Vettel on the other hand seems to be better able to separate longitudinal from lateral loads on the tyres. He brakes in a straight line and either maintains his speed for the entry until the apex; or will completely lift off the throttle and brake for a super sharp turn-in before then fully opening steering and powering out.

[Jeffsvilleusa]

I don't think Hamilton could have done much to keep Vettel behind ...
... there was some fantastic wheel to wheel racing with Webber and... who was it? Robserg?

Hamilton

Thanks for the clarification- I like how you juxtaposed my quote there- suggesting maybe there was a little more Hamilton could have done? Well, that's how it goes, there is always a little more performance that should be able to be extracted at the end of the day in F1!

[dougskullery]

All the reports I've read of the race so far say that Vettel managed to stay out of Hamilton's DRS range for the full distance. It's not true – during the second stint, Hamilton started lapping a few tenths faster than Vettel each lap, came within one second of him at the detection point and then set his fastest first sector by half a second, a clear sign he'd used his DRS down the straight. After that, Vettel pulled out a lead again. Presumably he had more pace in hand and had been driving within himself up to that point.

The TV director was following the Massa/Alonso fight at this point so a lot of people missed it, but it seemed odd to me that this potentially key moment went almost unnoticed.

[Traction]

All the reports I've read of the race so far say that Vettel managed to stay out of Hamilton's DRS range for the full distance. It's not true – during the second stint, Hamilton started lapping a few tenths faster than Vettel each lap, came within one second of him at the detection point and then set his fastest first sector by half a second, a clear sign he'd used his DRS down the straight. After that, Vettel pulled out a lead again. Presumably he had more pace in hand and had been driving within himself up to that point.

The TV director was following the Massa/Alonso fight at this point so a lot of people missed it, but it seemed odd to me that this potentially key moment went almost unnoticed.

That was so annoying....I could see on the sector and lap times it was close, frustrating to say the least ..

[FW17]

Could be the last Korean GP.

$500 million for a 7 year deal? Well done BE =D> =D> =D>

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95498

[n_anirudh]

I really hope it is the last one..its situated in the country side with not much passion and empty stands all weekend...

if Imola/RBRing was open, I am sure, it would be a sellout on all 3 days

[beelsebob]

I really hope it is the last one..its situated in the country side with not much passion and empty stands all weekend...

if Imola/RBRing was open, I am sure, it would be a sellout on all 3 days

I really hope it isn't, because while it may not have amazing atmosphere, it has provided awesome racing two years running.

[PlatinumZealot]

This thread is surprisingly short. I wonder why.

Keep it up guys. Quality is improving already. =D>

[djos]

This thread is surprisingly short. I wonder why.

Keep it up guys. Quality is improving already. =D>

I think it helped that Hamilton seems to have regained his abilities so there was nothing to argue about.

[doink]

I can see the reason for them trying to break into new markets, this one didn't work, neither did Turkey. This shouldn't feature on the calendar next year. It's a pretty boring and flawed track, hardly anyone went to see it, get rid.

[vall]

It has been 16 races already so I believe most drivers should be familiar with the high tire degradations. What I really don't get is why Vettel remains one level clear off everyone else? Why is it that Webber is not able to be faster than Vettel despite having the same car? In fact, he is not even closing the gap. Webber's fastest lap is 0.6 seconds off Vettel's in the race and Q3 pace is also 0.6 off.

Hamilton was going well in Quali, then suddenly chronic understeer force him to defend against Webber instead of fighting Vettel. Button, who is fame for his gentle nature on tires, is also suffering from no grip from the very start of the race.

Don't Vettel's engineer share info about tire degradation to Webber's engineer? that way both drivers can pit at the best (most optimal) time to max use the tire without slowing down.

well, it has been discussed in this forum that from year to year think may change and the same team-mates change order because the car, the tires, etc, suite one driver's style more, etc, etc. There are many reasons why Mark cannot match Seb this year. There are very few drivers there were only rarely outpaced by their team-mates.