2012 Canadian GP - Gilles Villeneuve

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beelsebob
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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myurr wrote:Fair enough. Doesn't negate the other point that the rest of the track was still DRS free.
Well, Hamilton certainly looked able to overtake in other places, but chose not to because he knew he'd get repassed under DRS. He stated in a BBC interview that he didn't pass Alonso at the hairpin for exactly that reason.

myurr
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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beelsebob wrote:
myurr wrote:Fair enough. Doesn't negate the other point that the rest of the track was still DRS free.
Well, Hamilton certainly looked able to overtake in other places, but chose not to because he knew he'd get repassed under DRS. He stated in a BBC interview that he didn't pass Alonso at the hairpin for exactly that reason.
To be fair he looked able to overtake into the hair pin, but it would have been risky as he would have been at fault if Alonso had turned in on him. That was a real risk as he was only up the inside like that as Alonso was deliberately running wide to get a straighter run down the straight.

He didn't state explicitly that he didn't pass Alonso for that reason, he said he was 'cool' about it knowing that it was all positioning for the straight.

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Gridlock
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Lumbered with an expensive Tilkedrome? Don't worry, DRS is here to make your track less painful for Ferrari or Mercedes, depending on which team your sovereign wealth fund owns bits of!

Owner of a classic race track like Suzuka or Montreal? Screw you!
#58

beelsebob
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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myurr wrote:
beelsebob wrote:
myurr wrote:Fair enough. Doesn't negate the other point that the rest of the track was still DRS free.
Well, Hamilton certainly looked able to overtake in other places, but chose not to because he knew he'd get repassed under DRS. He stated in a BBC interview that he didn't pass Alonso at the hairpin for exactly that reason.
To be fair he looked able to overtake into the hair pin, but it would have been risky as he would have been at fault if Alonso had turned in on him. That was a real risk as he was only up the inside like that as Alonso was deliberately running wide to get a straighter run down the straight.
This is why we don't get overtaking in breaking zones. As long as people consider it to be the attacker's fault if they stick one up the inside and the defender turns in, people won't stick one up the inside. To me, the defender can move across while they're clearly in front of all parts of the attacker's car... If moving across would cause the two to collide, in any way, even sticking their front wing under your rear wheels, they can't make that move, simple as that.
He didn't state explicitly that he didn't pass Alonso for that reason, he said he was 'cool' about it knowing that it was all positioning for the straight.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18390751 <-- he very much does explicitly state that he didn't do it because Alonso would pass him back.

myurr
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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beelsebob wrote:This is why we don't get overtaking in breaking zones. As long as people consider it to be the attacker's fault if they stick one up the inside and the defender turns in, people won't stick one up the inside. To me, the defender can move across while they're clearly in front of all parts of the attacker's car... If moving across would cause the two to collide, in any way, even sticking their front wing under your rear wheels, they can't make that move, simple as that.
Completely agree, but you would then have people making all kinds of crazy lunges up the inside that result in collision. You have to have some definition where contact is bad and a clear way of determining who is at fault. How many clumsy slides up the inside into the side of a driver did we see a few years back from the likes of Massa, Barrichello and Webber? Maybe F1 would be better if you could make a crazy lunge, certainly it would lead to more overtaking attempts and more people ducking back up the inside to retake the position.
beelsebob wrote:
He didn't state explicitly that he didn't pass Alonso for that reason, he said he was 'cool' about it knowing that it was all positioning for the straight.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18390751 <-- he very much does explicitly state that he didn't do it because Alonso would pass him back.
He explained it differently on Sky :P

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Kiril Varbanov
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Personally for me - it was glorious experience - I was co-host and guest of the national TV F1 commentary studio. Almost 6 hours spent in the TV building, make up, watching the sport channels on large screens, my favorite control desks with thousands of buttons, quite an experience. It went good and I may appear again. Thank you, dear friend, for inviting me!

The race itself could have offer a bit more thrill - I was expecting more from Lotus (Kimi) and Massa, was somehow betting on Hamilton for the win, and stronger Ferrari (Alonso). Feeling quite stumped for MSC and his allegedly hydraulic issue and RFA wide open.

Speedster
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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f1316 wrote:The reasoning on here seems to be that Hamilton's relatively poor 2nd stop was a contributing factor for Ferrari going to a one stopper. I'm not disputing that they might have done this, but it seems strange logic to me. By pitting on the very next lap, Alonso would have gained time from the pit stop - all things being normal he could could possibly have made up over a second in pure pit stop - and whilst he would still have emerged behind Hamilton, the gap would have been reduced.

Then you've got one stint on the primes. If you use the first stint as your guide, which is surely the obvious comparison, Alonso was able to stick with Hamilton with a stronger performance towards the end of the stint. He was slower down the straights, so overtaking was by no means a given, but it was still a decent shot at victory whilst also covering off the possibility of "falling off the cliff". He still had one set of brand new primes, I believe, so it seems a no brainer.

His logic after the race is that 10 points is fine, given their expectations before the race. That's all very well, but you had, at worst, 3rd in the bag with a two stopper, so a team with low expectations would surely have erred on the side of caution and got the 15/18 points? I'm certain Alonso is doing the "win together, lose together" job, which is admirable in a way, but I don't think anyone is really buying his explanation.
Well, 10 points is still a bunch after such a big mistake. If the race would've been 71 laps, he would've been 8th, with number 6-8 all within 3 seconds of him at the finish. In that respect, it could've been worse.

What I didn't understand is that they didn't seem to see it coming, including Alonso I'd say. Vettel was quicker than him in the laps before he pitted, at first I thought Alonso was managing his tyres a bit for a fight with Hamilton, but he was obviously losing them right then and there. It was clear Hamilton was going to pass him with DRS, like it or not, and the number 1 priority should always have been Vettel.

Red Schneider
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Kiril Varbanov wrote:Personally for me - it was glorious experience - I was co-host and guest of the national TV F1 commentary studio. Almost 6 hours spent in the TV building, make up, watching the sport channels on large screens, my favorite control desks with thousands of buttons, quite an experience. It went good and I may appear again. Thank you, dear friend, for inviting me!

The race itself could have offer a bit more thrill - I was expecting more from Lotus (Kimi) and Massa, was somehow betting on Hamilton for the win, and stronger Ferrari (Alonso). Feeling quite stumped for MSC and his allegedly hydraulic issue and RFA wide open.
Congratulations. Sounds like fun. The air was really let out of the baloon when Hamilton made the last charge so easily but still a thorougly compelling race.

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atanatizante
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Here in Canada, just like 2 week ago in Monaco, they have had the same soft and super soft tyres.

Therefore, could anybody tell me why the new soft ones, in their first lap after the pit stops, in Monaco were 3 sec. slower and here in Montreal they were at least 1 sec. faster then the old super soft ones or even on old soft ones, after the second round of pit stops ?
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bhall
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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It's because teams have started coming to terms with the tires this year. And by "coming to terms with the tires," I mean that Pirelli has quietly altered their construction, because they were tired of hearing their name associated with "all that's wrong with F1" and the like.

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Cam
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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bhallg2k wrote:It's because teams have started coming to terms with the tires this year. And by "coming to terms with the tires," I mean that Pirelli has quietly altered their construction, because they were tired of hearing their name associated with "all that's wrong with F1" and the like.
Do you really think that's the case? What makes you think they altered the compounds? If they did that and not told any of the teams, that would be disgraceful.
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ell66
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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atanatizante wrote:Here in Canada, just like 2 week ago in Monaco, they have had the same soft and super soft tyres.

Therefore, could anybody tell me why the new soft ones, in their first lap after the pit stops, in Monaco were 3 sec. slower and here in Montreal they were at least 1 sec. faster then the old super soft ones or even on old soft ones, after the second round of pit stops ?
Monaco has very low deg/wear and takes a few laps for the tyres to get going at times.

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atanatizante
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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ell66 wrote:
atanatizante wrote:Here in Canada, just like 2 week ago in Monaco, they have had the same soft and super soft tyres.

Therefore, could anybody tell me why the new soft ones, in their first lap after the pit stops, in Monaco were 3 sec. slower and here in Montreal they were at least 1 sec. faster then the old super soft ones or even on old soft ones, after the second round of pit stops ?
Monaco has very low deg/wear and takes a few laps for the tyres to get going at times.
That was also the case here in Canada, with very low deg/wear ...
Grosjean, Perez and many other drivers were able to do at least 40 laps with the soft ones ...
Maybe the hot temperatures have something to do in this respect ...
That`s why I`m puzzled ones more `coz in Bahrein, in the same temps and ruff tarmac, we saw 18 laps on the soft ones at max ...
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Gridlock
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Cam wrote:
bhallg2k wrote:It's because teams have started coming to terms with the tires this year. And by "coming to terms with the tires," I mean that Pirelli has quietly altered their construction, because they were tired of hearing their name associated with "all that's wrong with F1" and the like.
Do you really think that's the case? What makes you think they altered the compounds? If they did that and not told any of the teams, that would be disgraceful.
"Natural variability"
#58

bhall
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Exactly. And no team will ever complain about finding more tire durability.