2012 Canadian GP - Gilles Villeneuve

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FakeAlonso
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Alonso's graph looks like falling from a cliff in the last laps.
It is no brainier that when the Pirelli Lottery tires go off they go off way to much. So Ferrari should have known this but I guess the pit wall needs some better strategists.

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marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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maybe Alonso just needs Smedley....but i guess he is already married to Felipe these days....

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FakeAlonso
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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marcush. wrote:maybe Alonso just needs Smedley....but i guess he is already married to Felipe these days....
"Felipe Baby"...... I dont think Alonso will allow him to call "Fernando Baby", Smedley might loose his job if he pulls something like this to Alonso.

fiohaa
fiohaa
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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miss the days when you'd see drivers push, on the limit.
remember when youd see the drivers visibly pushing, locking up, squirming under acceleration, maybe a bit of oversteer mid corner.

FIA and pirelli have absolutely destroyed F1

lebesset
lebesset
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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pisco wrote:Well or bad ???
Alonso said for Montecarlo "bet on red" and it was right !!! not for Monaco but fo Montreal. Ferrari crew dont believe in him #-o and they dont stop Fernando #-o #-o #-o if they call for a pit and paly with red tyres surely they win :P
alonso said they went for the one stop because they knew they couldn't win on a 2 stop strategy
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

ajdavison2
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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They went into a one stop because hamilton forced them into it, he left the pits with such pace, and they left it so late that if they had stopped they wouldve fallen back anyway, so they tried to brave it. Redbull eventually realised and pitted Vettel 7 laps from the end.

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pocketmoon
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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Anyone else think Mercedes were just way too conservative with Nico at this race ?

Being told to preserve tyres and fuel during the opening laps saw him running a second+ off the leading pace and then on lap 13 finds +1s for 5 laps before he pits. Perhaps MGP wary of the SSofts and then told to push before the change.

But then Nico was flying on the middle stint with his lap times showing no sign of falling off when he pitted at 37. For the four laps prior to pitting he was faster than Hami, Alonso, Masa... in fact he was pretty much fastest guy on the track.

Rob

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FrukostScones
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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pocketmoon wrote:Anyone else think Mercedes were just way too conservative with Nico at this race ?

Being told to preserve tyres and fuel during the opening laps saw him running a second+ off the leading pace and then on lap 13 finds +1s for 5 laps before he pits. Perhaps MGP wary of the SSofts and then told to push before the change.

But then Nico was flying on the middle stint with his lap times showing no sign of falling off when he pitted at 37. For the four laps prior to pitting he was faster than Hami, Alonso, Masa... in fact he was pretty much fastest guy on the track.

Rob
yep, could not believe that they called him in again so early, thought he had a problem, but no, that was their strategy....
it was indeed a bit strange imho
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

foxmulder_ms
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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FakeAlonso wrote:Alonso's graph looks like falling from a cliff in the last laps.
It is no brainier that when the Pirelli Lottery tires go off they go off way to much. So Ferrari should have known this but I guess the pit wall needs some better strategists.

Image

Looking at this graph, I dont see a "cliff" for Alonso at all. If anything, it is pretty gradual.

myurr
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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ajdavison2 wrote:They went into a one stop because hamilton forced them into it, he left the pits with such pace, and they left it so late that if they had stopped they wouldve fallen back anyway, so they tried to brave it. Redbull eventually realised and pitted Vettel 7 laps from the end.
Reading James Allen's analysis and watching the race live, they actually looked frozen by indecision. It was clear within two or three laps that Hamilton would easily catch them with or without the tyres going off, and with the DRS and McLaren's straight line speed it would have been relatively easy for him to pass. If there had been a safety car then they would have been able to get a free pit stop so it may have worked but that was a big gamble.

So Ferrari switched their view to Vettel and were looking to cover him but took their eye off the cars coming up behind and seemed to ignore the fact that Massa's tyres went off after 40 laps and they were asking Alonso to do a further 25%.

They messed up. Should have realised with 10 laps to go and come out a few seconds behind Grosjean but with much fresher supersoft tyres. They could have attacked him then and stood a good chance of getting back in front.

Arterius
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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FrukostScones wrote:
pocketmoon wrote:Anyone else think Mercedes were just way too conservative with Nico at this race ?

Being told to preserve tyres and fuel during the opening laps saw him running a second+ off the leading pace and then on lap 13 finds +1s for 5 laps before he pits. Perhaps MGP wary of the SSofts and then told to push before the change.

But then Nico was flying on the middle stint with his lap times showing no sign of falling off when he pitted at 37. For the four laps prior to pitting he was faster than Hami, Alonso, Masa... in fact he was pretty much fastest guy on the track.

Rob
yep, could not believe that they called him in again so early, thought he had a problem, but no, that was their strategy....
it was indeed a bit strange imho
They pitted Nico as he caught up with the drivers in front of him. After the stop he put in more fast laps and managed to gain a few places because of the undercut.

myurr
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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foxmulder_ms wrote:Looking at this graph, I dont see a "cliff" for Alonso at all. If anything, it is pretty gradual.
It's a drop off of around 0.2 seconds per lap, which is significant over a few laps but pretty easy to spot when it's happening and then react to it. You can see the start of it even before Vettel pitted, and I remember very clearly being able to spot it happening whilst watching the live timing. I have to admit to being stunned that Ferrari left him out, but clearly they thought they could manage it and bring the car home regardless.

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raymondu999
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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They probably thought saving the stop would be worth more than the fresh tyres.

Around this circuit, with such a short pitstop delta (something like 14s) so many traction zones which benefit from fresh rubber, and the ease compared to other circuits of overtaking, I'm surprised a 1-stop even worked for some people. As a gamble, possibly. As a planned strategy I'm surprised it was even considered.
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myurr
myurr
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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raymondu999 wrote:They probably thought saving the stop would be worth more than the fresh tyres.

Around this circuit, with such a short pitstop delta (something like 14s) so many traction zones which benefit from fresh rubber, and the ease compared to other circuits of overtaking, I'm surprised a 1-stop even worked for some people. As a gamble, possibly. As a planned strategy I'm surprised it was even considered.
I would have thought the pace that Hamilton demonstrated would have shown that it wasn't going to work out for them. Had they pitted even 10 laps from the end then they would have been a few seconds behind Grosjean but on almost new supersofts, with 10 laps to hunt him down and reclaim second. You could clearly see by that point that Alonso's tyres were going off and Vettels were just showing signs of going.

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FrukostScones
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Re: Canadian GP 2012 - Gilles Villeneuve

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I was not impressed with Lewis lap times after his second pit stop. I mean Perez was stuck behind Rosberg who was just 0.5 slower than HAM with 12 lap older soft tyres (And didn't they tell HAM to go flat out), after Perez got past Rosberg he was faster than Hamilton (also before Lewis got past Alonso,Vet, after Lewis passed ALO, HAM was maybe slowing down a bit). I mean PEREz was on new/unused supersoft but they were 18 laps old in lap 59.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.