2012 Italian Grand Prix - Monza

[rodi]

Interesting, so McLaren won, basically, because they were quick out of the corners and quick at the end of the straight.

if you want to keep it simple, you are right. They had the best car/driver package in Monza.

Sometimes the simple observations an the best ones... Ocam's razor and all

indeed

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

http://intelligentf1.wordpress.com/2012 ... -analysis/

[Ral]

http://intelligentf1.wordpress.com/2012 ... -analysis/

Awesome blog, thank you

[JMN]

http://intelligentf1.wordpress.com/2012 ... -analysis/

7th. Rosberg (Mercedes): +1.3s on mediums, +0.8s on hards. Nico has reason to be a bit annoyed. The pace in the first stint was awful, and the evidence supports Mercedes suggestions of a dodgy set of tyres.

What is peoples' take on "dodgy sets of tyres"? Is there something to it or is it more of a catch-all phrase for setup issues. I've seen the term come up quite a few times this year, but somehow the top teams does not seem to be (as) affected.

[wesley123]

it is described for when teams seem to have reaceived a set of tires that is worse.

Sure it can be setup wise, but when the car has performed much better on the same set under smae settings in the same conditions I think it is quite clear.

We have seen the top teams have it too, when in a stint there is suddenly a lack of pace.

[beelsebob]

http://intelligentf1.wordpress.com/2012 ... -analysis/

7th. Rosberg (Mercedes): +1.3s on mediums, +0.8s on hards. Nico has reason to be a bit annoyed. The pace in the first stint was awful, and the evidence supports Mercedes suggestions of a dodgy set of tyres.

What is peoples' take on "dodgy sets of tyres"? Is there something to it or is it more of a catch-all phrase for setup issues. I've seen the term come up quite a few times this year, but somehow the top teams does not seem to be (as) affected.

My bet would be that it's tyres that got cooked at some point during practice/qually.

[NonNewtonic]

It's actually overusing the tyres because they did 2 consecutive flying lap while other teams did one so I think those tyres are pretty old by the start of the race

[raymondu999]

I think we can rule out the teams frying the tyres in practice - I think teams focus their schedules around the tyres that are returned after Friday, so that they can enjoy the full benefits of 3 fresh sets of each compound into qualifying.

[beelsebob]

I think we can rule out the teams frying the tyres in practice - I think teams focus their schedules around the tyres that are returned after Friday, so that they can enjoy the full benefits of 3 fresh sets of each compound into qualifying.

Agreed, the likely time they're frying them is in qualifying. As we know, the tyres do not like being overheated, I would bet heavily the "dud tyres" they get in the race occasionally are ones that having been used, as stated above, for 2 or more flying laps in qualifying, and as a result have gone over the critical threshold where their makeup changes.

I think this is why early in the season we saw people who saved tyres in qualifying doing so well, and I think it's why we saw a much higher rate of dud tyres at the start of the season – because the teams have figured out now that if they really use the tyres in qualifying, they won't be any good in the race.

[raymondu999]

Yes - I heard somewhere that this year's tyres (not sure if last year's was the same or not) are very sensitive to how you use the first mm of rubber. You need to really drive daintily until that first mm of rubber is gone, then you can push. I don't understand why, but yeah.

[SiLo]

Yeah, I think we saw that at Monza after Hamilton pitted, he outlap was really slow, then his pace after was easily the strongest. Being careful on the outlap, if you have the space, clearly has an advantage across the life span of the tyre.

[marcush.]

-Bad set of tyres-
I´d bet this is more than anything aTEAM thing as the probability of receiving a set of tyres which is all bad is zero.Let´s assume you got a somehow bad front tyre ..this would generate a basically understeering car and a single bad tyre at the rear would result in a oversteery car ...but it would go worse in one direction if that was the case -easy to detect on data recording and the drivers butt...So how do you get a full set of tyres coming from at least two different molds to work exceptionally bad? you may have treated them bad ,maybe?
I´m pretty sure the tyre blankets teams are using are not all the same - and who knows if they are REALLY checked for producing exactly the heat you want ....a further variable is the time you expose the tyre to the heat ,ramp up hold time ,for new ,used or scrubbed tyres.
Then how do you break in new tyres ? how do they interact with fresh oir rubbered in Tarmac...all tracks have different tarmac ,then you got bright sunlight ,overcast skies ,and ambient temps...does humidity outside the tyre affect its performance? What about tyre mounting compound (cotaining water) a blob too much inside the tyre and you get a disaster in pressure buildup with heat ..what about dry air to fill the tyres..a lot can go wrong starting with a uncalibrated tyre pressure gauge.....In a competitive world with 20 cars within 1 second it seems rather obvious you are shot when your processes are not fully under control and every detail has to be under scrutinety ..
Do Teams weigh the tyres after each run to check for tread wear? to measure tread depth with a caliper seems rather imprecise to me...

[Shrieker]

Those are all very good points Marcush, but do we really need so small variables creating a big effect in the end ? I think this is exactly why people are calling pirelli tyres as lottery. This is F1 ffs, the teams shouldn't have to worry about stuff like whether the factory worker sneezed or farted or coughed while the tyre was being molded...

[raymondu999]

To be fair, Shrieker - what marcush has stated doesn't seem to be a Pirelli-only scenario. The old Bridgestones still faced various track surfaces, faced each individual team's tyre blankets, etc.

[Nando]

Those are all very good points Marcush, but do we really need so small variables creating a big effect in the end ? I think this is exactly why people are calling pirelli tyres as lottery. This is F1 ffs, the teams shouldn't have to worry about stuff like whether the factory worker sneezed or farted or coughed while the tyre was being molded...

They haven´t. The contrary actually.

That´s one thing they have praised Pirelli for, consistency in the tires.
It´s the media who has played up this lottery thing because the teams at first did not understand them.