2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
Maelstrom
2
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:38 am

Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Maelstrom » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:30 am

Juzh wrote:
Gridlock wrote:I think they thought they could drive to the podium from P9, and maybe to the win, and were nearly proved right.

That this season hasn't become 2011 (yet) is the main reason I still might buy Pirelli tyres.
quite true what you said about tyres. If this were 2010's bridgestones, or even 2011 pirellis, vettel would most likely had 75 in the bag by now. Its really annoying how much they have to compromise on setup just to be able to finish the race on reasonable pace.
Why do you say that? If Vettel would have been able to go all out on Bridgestones, then so would the rest. It would then have gone down to the fastest car. Which I don't think Red Bull was in China.

turbof1
Moderator
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by turbof1 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:38 am

qualy said that mercedes was the fastest one there. Their lack of racepace was mainly due to the tyres.
#AeroFrodo

korzeniow
25
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:51 am
Location: Cracow/Poland

Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by korzeniow » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:28 am

Maelstrom wrote:
Juzh wrote:
Gridlock wrote:I think they thought they could drive to the podium from P9, and maybe to the win, and were nearly proved right.

That this season hasn't become 2011 (yet) is the main reason I still might buy Pirelli tyres.
quite true what you said about tyres. If this were 2010's bridgestones, or even 2011 pirellis, vettel would most likely had 75 in the bag by now. Its really annoying how much they have to compromise on setup just to be able to finish the race on reasonable pace.
Why do you say that? If Vettel would have been able to go all out on Bridgestones, then so would the rest. It would then have gone down to the fastest car. Which I don't think Red Bull was in China.
No he wouldn't. He would go on one stop strategy and still he would preserve his tyres.

That was the case in 2010 and in 2012 at the end of the season.
It's been a long time since we drove last time, but it has also been a short time at the same time
Roam Grosjean ponders the passing of time on the first day of testing at Jerez
February 5, 2013

Nomore
-1
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:49 pm

Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Nomore » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:38 am

No he wouldn't. He would go on one stop strategy and still he would preserve his tyres.

That was the case in 2010 and in 2012 at the end of the season.
Well the point is that in 2010 (2011) and second part of 2012 he had the fastest car...whatever tyres you put the result would have been the same...RB in pole
Now he hasn't the fastest car, that's why they gamble with the strategy.

Maelstrom
2
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:38 am

Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Maelstrom » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:07 am

Nomore wrote:
No he wouldn't. He would go on one stop strategy and still he would preserve his tyres.

That was the case in 2010 and in 2012 at the end of the season.
Well the point is that in 2010 (2011) and second part of 2012 he had the fastest car...whatever tyres you put the result would have been the same...RB in pole
Now he hasn't the fastest car, that's why they gamble with the strategy.
My point exactly. Right now and Ferrari and Lotus are faster than Red Bull. I might even say that Merc are a little faster, but I won't, because Merc's pace is up in the air right now. Their race pace doesn't match their Quali pace. Or rather I should say, their pace on a heavy fuel load is not very quick.

Richard
Moderator
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:41 pm
Location: UK

Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Richard » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:22 pm

turbof1 wrote:qualy said that mercedes was the fastest one there. Their lack of racepace was mainly due to the tyres.
I thought their pace was largely dictated by fuel saving ?

Maelstrom
2
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:38 am

Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Maelstrom » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:41 pm

That was Malaysia... wasn't it? Where Hamilton was on a fuel saving mode from mid-way in the race.

turbof1
Moderator
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by turbof1 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:44 pm

richard_leeds wrote:
turbof1 wrote:qualy said that mercedes was the fastest one there. Their lack of racepace was mainly due to the tyres.
I thought their pace was largely dictated by fuel saving ?
Unless I am mistaken, they simple came short on longterm tyre performance. Like pointed out, the fuel saving was for malaysia.
#AeroFrodo

Phil
392
User avatar
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Phil » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:14 pm

Nomore wrote:
That said the big question mark is what the RB would have done to the Softs with full fuel had they run a 'conventional' strategy. It seems that was a major consderation of RB
It's an open debate. My personal opinion is they would be qualified at best 5th or 6th (according to Vettel : Mercedes & Ferraris were unreachable in their quali trim) and a podium finish almost guaranteed.
I'm quite convinced that they have left Shanghai thinking...we could have done better.
Indeed, in hindsight. At the time though and before the race, I thought their strategy call was that ace in their pocket which could have been a brilliant gamble, had it worked. Of course, only in the knowledge that the option tyre was so fragile that most struggled to get to lap 5 on them.

I'm actually surprised and glad at the same time that they took the risk of trying. If they had a stronger qualifying pace, I doubt they would have taken that risk and gamble. I wouldn't mind seeing a top team attempting an alternative strategy more often. Makes the race a lot more exciting then if you have the top 10 starting on option tyres and everyone behind that on the premium tyre (well most of them usually). Now if only such alternate strategies would provoke harder racing and overtakes... :?
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Gridlock
60
User avatar
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:14 am

Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by Gridlock » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:52 pm

Maelstrom wrote:If Vettel would have been able to go all out on Bridgestones, then so would the rest. It would then have gone down to the fastest car. Which I don't think Red Bull was in China.
Unless you know the FP fuel loads you can't say that - they were saving 'rubber' after that.
#58

henra
64
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:34 pm

Re: 2013 Chinese GP - Shanghai

Post by henra » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:38 pm

Maelstrom wrote:Right now and Ferrari and Lotus are faster than Red Bull. I might even say that Merc are a little faster, but I won't, because Merc's pace is up in the air right now.
Please define faster.
I would be very careful to speak about car performance in such absolute statements. Otherwise you might have to eat your words in the next race.
It is much like the beginning of last year where we saw a lot of hit and miss with the setup and tyre adaptation.
The speed we see in Quali gives some indication of max performance but even that just shows if they can get the tyres into their optimum window.
The speed we see during the race is barely just optimum tyre preservation speed for each car. That might be very different from max theoretical performance of the car.
That said Lotus and Ferrari seem to harmonise best with the tyres (so far). Which is a big plus these days.
The performance ranking might look somewhat differently with the 'good ol' Bridgestones.

From a pure design perspective I like the RB and the Ferrari best this year. You can really see the aerodynamic 'vision' behind these two cars. They are quite different in their approach yet they are the most pure and clean version of their respective approaches. Once/If they get the tyres sorted I tend to expect them to be the two top contenders throughout the season.
All others are blends between those two.