Japanese GP 2005

West · Post 11 Oct 2005, 03:46

Sato makes too many unrealistic moves. Good race by the way

manchild · Post 11 Oct 2005, 04:08

tetopelis wrote:...if so who would be a good candidate for the second renault seat?

Jacques Villeneuve [-o<

Guest · Post 11 Oct 2005, 16:20

manchild wrote:
tetopelis wrote:...if so who would be a good candidate for the second renault seat?
Jacques Villeneuve [-o<

I don't think so. Bourdais or Montagny could be a good choice... to improve F1 in France... And these two are able to do better job than Fisico this season...

Scuderia_Russ · Post 11 Oct 2005, 18:08

Monyagny has been given the flick.

manchild · Post 11 Oct 2005, 19:12

Bourdais is too green and there is Kovalainen before him in any option. Anyway, second driver won't be test driver without 1 full season racing experience even though I agree that all if these three - Kovalainen, Montagny and Bourdais would have made better score than Fisichella, especially Montagny.

DaveKillens · Post 12 Oct 2005, 04:39

As opposed to many, I continue to believe Fisi is a very good driver, who just had a crappy year. According to what I heard on my local TV station, Fisi just signed a contract with Renault for '06. I have to believe that, because to me, Renault do not have a better driver ready to replace him.
As far as Bourdais, I believe he won't go F1, he is too comfortable and happy winning in CART. According to the local CART rumor mill, Bourdais somehow is just not on the list in F1, he somehow didn't make the transition. Maybe he's too tall, or maybe he pissed on someone's breakfast, he just isn't on anyone's F1 wish list. And it's a shame, with his European road racing experience, and now added with his years in CART, he could be a formidable racer in F1. Don't forget, a few quality drivers have come from CART, and without exception, they aren't pussies.
As far as the race itself, it was definitely one of the more exciting races in years. Maybe they should invert the field more often (j/k)
There were a lot of good drives, and there were some major screw-ups by others. Sato? I think he killed his career in front of his home fans this time. Montoya? How many times will he continue to collide with obviously slower cars? Ralf? With your salary and Toyota's budget, there is not excuse to finish worse than you qualify, almost every race. D.C.? Red Bull hit the jackpot with you, you are worth every penny they pay you.
The best drive of the race? Kimi, obviously. The best move? Alonso passing Shu at 130R. The bonehead move of the week? Sato...... it's time to move on and stop wasting Honda's money and ruining other's weekends. You ought to meet Robby Gordon, another quick driver that somehow appears to race with as much brain power as a potato.
But it was an exciting race, one with a lot of controversy, one that will keep us bench racers wagging our tongues for many moons.

Scuderia_Russ · Post 12 Oct 2005, 10:15

Top post Dave, not only do I agree with 99% of it but it raised a smile too.

wowf1 · Post 12 Oct 2005, 13:59

arghh! It's amazingly frustrating to read posts by people with different opinions than yourself! But i guess that's the fun of it, and what keeps us all coming back to the forum

To manchild, you say that if it wasn't for the FIA 'cock up' (if that's what really happened) then Kimi would have been 3rd. Please look at how early in the race the incident with Klien occurred. If Alonso had not had this issue, and he had gone on to challenge for a podium place, you can be sure that Kimi would have driven a different race. The pace of the MP4/20 means that a 7 second deficit could be overcome in perhaps 15 laps or less. So this '7 second buffer' that you have allocated Alonso is basically null and void. On top of this, do you not think Mclaren may have altered their strategy in order to combat the possibility of the Renaults being in front? I suspect Kimi may still have won.

Yes a good post from DaveKillens, but i'm not so sure about your comments regarding Fisi! I can accept any driver has a crappy race. Even the top boys may have 1. Crappy drivers have maybe 4 or more crappy races per season, which we always see. But to have a crappy season, bar 1 race. That really is crappy.

Fisi realy did have the season set after Melbourne, he set the benchmark for the first race. He impressed everyone, and thus his reputation was high. He had the team behind him (as the new signing, to win straight away was a good thing to do!) Flav must have been chuffed. For the next race, he qualified last, a fairly significant advantage. Seems to me that he had a few things stacked in his favour for a decent season. Alas no.

Fisi always seems to have something on his mind, like he's not happy, and bothered by something. I find him annoyingly mysterious, especially when he lets his mood affect his performance in the car.

ooo well, some more opinions thrown in lol.

rob

manchild · Post 12 Oct 2005, 14:48

wowf1 wrote:To manchild, you say that if it wasn't for the FIA 'cock up' (if that's what really happened) then Kimi would have been 3rd. Please look at how early in the race the incident with Klien occurred. If Alonso had not had this issue, and he had gone on to challenge for a podium place, you can be sure that Kimi would have driven a different race. The pace of the MP4/20 means that a 7 second deficit could be overcome in perhaps 15 laps or less. So this '7 second buffer' that you have allocated Alonso is basically null and void. On top of this, do you not think Mclaren may have altered their strategy in order to combat the possibility of the Renaults being in front? I suspect Kimi may still have won.

It is not just about 7 sec. Those 7 sec meant much more time lost afterwards in overtaking after pitstops. If Alonso was free to run than perhaps he wouldn't have to loose time overtaking MS for the second time including other drivers. Just look at the positions after first pitsop after that "accident" - Alonso fell down much more than it was supposed to be having in mind his tactics and pace without penalty.

Than there is fastest lap in race that shows that Kimi with fresh engine was making 1:31.540 while Alonso made 1:31.599. Fisichella’s best was 1:32.522 which means that without penalty Alonso would probably finished in front of him too. One second slower than Alonso…

So I am saying that Kimi didn't have car fast enough to endanger Alonso who lost his position due to penalty that messed his tactics. Kimi even had problems with Fisichella who was over 1 sec slower which means that Alonso would easily defend his position.

I’m not going into guessing game about how the podium would look like, I only wish this race went on without that FIA “mistake” because than we’d have clearer situation.

jaslfc · Post 12 Oct 2005, 16:02

i dont think its fair to take away a magnificent win for kimi by saying alonso would have been faster and the fia took away a possible win for him. to err is human.. in everything in life there are bound to be human mistakes so i feel you shouldnt be so critical on the stewards decisions. if you look at other sports expecially football(soccer to the americans

)there are so much more mistakes by the referees... thats my opinion..

dave.. i agree with u about david coulthard. i think he is the driver of the season after alonso and kimi..

Scuderia_Russ · Post 12 Oct 2005, 17:08

wowf1 wrote:
Yes a good post from DaveKillens, but i'm not so sure about your comments regarding Fisi!

rob

That's why i said 99%

Guest · Post 12 Oct 2005, 18:02

manchild wrote:

Than there is fastest lap in race that shows that Kimi with fresh engine was making 1:31.540 while Alonso made 1:31.599. Fisichella’s best was 1:32.522 which means that without penalty Alonso would probably finished in front of him too. One second slower than Alonso… Rolling Eyes

So I am saying that Kimi didn't have car fast enough to endanger Alonso who lost his position due to penalty that messed his tactics. Kimi even had problems with Fisichella who was over 1 sec slower which means that Alonso would easily defend his position.

First off u neglect their relative fuel loads when both posted their fastest laps. So in fact Kimi did have a fast enough car to endanger Alonso assuming(????) he was behind him. Secondly, 7 sec or not, Alonso would still have been behind Kimi after the 1st and 2nd pstop.

But you are quite right when you said" Fisichella’s best was 1:32.522 which means that without penalty Alonso would probably finished in front of him too" 'Probably' being the key word.

F1 is 'if' backwards. All we know are: Fact. Kimi gifted Alonso 3 wins while leading a GP. In Alonso' case all u have managed to show are a bunch of ifs or probablys wrt to 3 of Kimi's wins. Both are good and have been unlucky at time during this season. Kimi gifting Alonso a win does not take anything away from Alonso and vice versa.

Post 12 Oct 2005, 19:16

I still stick with it though, 10 seconds is not nothing, in fact it's quite a lot, especially considering they were at that time of the race almost equally fast. Keeping in mind that Alonso would not have been stuck behind Schumacher a second time I don't see how Raikkonen would possibly have got in front of the Spaniard.

Alonso was 17 seconds behind the winner at the finish, so let's do some calculation here:
10s for the FIA thing with Klien, 4s for Schumacher the second time. Maybe with that difference he would have been in front of Button and Webber after his last stop, which is very much 17 seconds. (and 7 seconds loss for overtaking 3 cars is really quick passing, so it's likely to be more).

About the champ... tired of discussing it, what happened is history and Alonso is the only World Champion, how much Kimi may dream of it

Principessa · Post 12 Oct 2005, 19:25

Totally agree with ya Tomba. And about the other Championship lets wait and see and for the other people who live in Europe...get up early again on Sunday for the race.

To be honoust...I think both teams deserve it althoug I'm a Renault fan. Have to say the McLaren Team did well this year, just as the Renautlt Team, so it's fair that the last race of the season will have to decide who becomes the first non Ferrari team for a while to win the constructor's title.

manchild · Post 12 Oct 2005, 21:46

jaslfc wrote:i dont think its fair to take away a magnificent win for kimi by saying alonso would have been faster and the fia took away a possible win for him. to err is human.. in everything in life there are bound to be human mistakes so i feel you shouldnt be so critical on the stewards decisions. if you look at other sports expecially football(soccer to the americans )there are so much more mistakes by the referees... thats my opinion....

Exactlly! That is why I don’t watch sports where result is based on decisions of jury. Results in f1 should depend on time measurement only and what happened to Alonso did him wrong because it was a decision (wrong one, illegal one) from the jury.