Chinese GP 2005

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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I think you got it wrong. I’m defending Renault from FIA.

Why should Renault or Mclaren be punished for much lesser “crimes” than those Ferrari got away with during their 5 seasons of dominance? That is why I’m defending Renault – because the FIA never had balls (and financial interest) to punish Ferrari or MS for pile of their much worse technical and MS’s sporting illegalities but when Renault is in question than they pour sanctions without hesitation and thinking over if what they are doing has any background in current regulations.

Where are FIA sanctions for MS for shutting Sato’s visor in Spa? Why was Pizzionia just fined while Sato severely sanctioned even though both of them caused identical incidents (not to mention that Pizzonia hit Montoya who was one of the race leaders and whose team was competing for WCC)?

What about Japan and FIA’a penalty for Alonso? FIA screwed up – they didn’t see that Alsono had already let Klien in front. What were the consequences for FIA? They are never to blame.


BTW, Alonso was asking his team for permission to overtake Fisichella via radio - there are no similarities between those two teams and drivers.

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Scuderia_Russ
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manchild wrote:
Why should Renault or Mclaren be punished for much lesser “crimes” than those Ferrari got away with during their 5 seasons of dominance?.
???
manchild wrote: That is why I’m defending Renault – because the FIA never had balls (and financial interest) to punish Ferrari or MS for pile of their much worse technical and MS’s sporting illegalities but when Renault is in question than they pour sanctions without hesitation and thinking over if what they are doing has any background in current regulations..
Technical and sporting illegalities?

manchild wrote:Where are FIA sanctions for MS for shutting Sato’s visor in Spa?
Your joking right?
manchild wrote:Why was Pizzionia just fined while Sato severely sanctioned even though both of them caused identical incidents (not to mention that Pizzonia hit Montoya who was one of the race leaders and whose team was competing for WCC)?
Did you see the Pizzonia-Montoya incident because I never saw that footage! Sato failed to use his brakes and caused an avoidable accident!
Even Montoya didn't think that Pizzonia was to blame after the incident so I think you are making something of nothing.

manchild wrote:What about Japan and FIA’a penalty for Alonso? FIA screwed up – they didn’t see that Alsono had already let Klien in front. What were the consequences for FIA? They are never to blame.
Maybe you think that Max Mosely is sitting in front of a t.v. dishing out these penalties as he sees fit. The reason there are inconsistencies in punishments is because course officials used for the circuit in question are provided by the representitive governing body in that country. The same people are not taken to each and every race they are different for each race. The overtake made by Alonso was shady at best anyway, and I believe I would have made the same decision.
manchild wrote: BTW, Alonso was asking his team for permission to overtake Fisichella via radio - there are no similarities between those two teams and drivers.
This is classic Manchild. Yeah he asked the team in that race but in the previous race they told him to overtake Fissi so don't you think he's clever enough to ask the team first (on the second occasion) so as to avoid any talk of possible team orders or are you really that naive?
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

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Scuderia_Russ
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By the way, Briatore has admitted that he told Fissi to hold the others up on the entry to the pits.
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

manchild
manchild
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Scuderia_Russ wrote:???
I’m referring to many situations of which I can currently remember several, like MS pushed out of the gravel by marshals which is illegal (getting assistance outside the pits), crossing the white line without penalty or those technical illegalities like those when points were taken only to Ferrari and not to their drivers (drivers had no idea what car they drove :roll: ). Just remember how many races have been decided at the “green table” and how many times Ferrari was caught with car outside of regulations, especially in the late ‘90s early ‘00s…
manchild wrote: That is why I’m defending Renault – because the FIA never had balls (and financial interest) to punish Ferrari or MS for pile of their much worse technical and MS’s sporting illegalities but when Renault is in question than they pour sanctions without hesitation and thinking over if what they are doing has any background in current regulations..
Scuderia_Russ wrote:Technical and sporting illegalities?
Illegalities when it matters disrespect of Technical and/or Sporting regulations.
manchild wrote:Where are FIA sanctions for MS for shutting Sato’s visor in Spa?
Scuderia_Russ wrote: Your joking right?
No I’m not. I think that it was Montoya who said something like – “If I’ve done something like that I’d be punished”. What gives MS the right to go around the track and slap other drivers? That was physical attack on another driver and that is highly forbidden (sporting regulations).

How could have MS known that Sato didn’t have some health problems, perhaps breathing problems? Who is he to shut anyone’s visor?! Any other driver would have been punished but not “almighty” MS. Imagine Sato doing that to MS :!: He’d got kick in the butt from F1.

If Pizzonia as you said wasn’t guilty for the accident with Montoya than it confirms that FIA is punishing innocent drivers. :wink:

Regarding Japan - Race director is the same at all events. I see nothing shady about Alonso’s overtaking, for sure he didn’t deliberately choose to overtake over the grass and risk car damage. Even more, if he was deliberate than he wouldn’t let Klien pass by before FIA even made their decision.

I’m not being naïve regarding radio communication. I understand that Alonso was in favor since he was battling for WDC but when did you hear MS asking to overtake Barichello? Even if it was 100% for the public and FIA stewards listening radio communications at least it sounded fair. Don’t forget situations where Alonso was ordered to overtake Fisichella – why was that done if Fisi obviously wouldn’t make problems to Alonso?

Finnaly, Fisi wasn’t hired to play “Alonso’s little helper” as Barrichello. In Ferrari they have clear and unquestionable hierarchy which isn’t the case in any other team.

Flavio admitted that he ordered Fisi to hold back Kimi? Can you please post a link to that statement? Many things can be premeditated but how could have Flavio known that Kimi will enter the pits same time as Fisichella?! I’m not saying that it was impossible for Flavio to radio Fisi when both cars have already turned in and were approaching the pitlane (speed limit sector) but that must have been done extremely fast.

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f1.redbaron
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Manchild, try this:
http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=101647

I think that's what Scuderia_Russ was talking about.


As far as MS goes, yes he did get away with a lot of things, but that's in the past. Now FIA is trying to level the playing field. Had MS done something like that now, believe me, Briatore and Dennis would've been all over that. So, you can't say "Michael got away with it 5 year ago!", becase the answer you'll get is "Yeah, well, this is a brand new rule".

You had, also, said that MS had no right to shut Sato's visor like that. I'll agree that he has no right to be as angry as he was, but only because similar examples can be found on his CV. However, what Sato did was one of the most idiotic things ever (that's putting it mildly). It was, IMO, so idiotic that if I was Michael, I would've punched him. Shutting his visor won't cause him any respiratory problems, as he is forced to keep it in that position during the race. Besides, (I don't know if you'd ever worn any kind of crash helmet) helmets come with all kinds of openings which improve the air ciruculations - not to mention the big opening located between the edge of the helmet and your chin/mouth region.

manchild
manchild
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When I mentioned visor and breathing I was just wild guessing about possibilities having in mind that it is a part of driver’s safety equipment and that no one except driver himself or medical personnel are allowed to mess with it after the accident. Sato did stupid thing but so did MS so many times.

What should have Hill and Villeneuve done to Schuey - nuke him couple of times? :wink:

I've seen the article about Flavio's orders but I wonder why can't it be found on official F1 website, pitpass etc.?

And yes, I did wear racing helmet and I know the ventilation works separately from visor.

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Scuderia_Russ
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manchild wrote:
Scuderia_Russ wrote:???
I’m referring to many situations of which I can currently remember several, like MS pushed out of the gravel by marshals which is illegal (getting assistance outside the pits), crossing the white line without penalty or those technical illegalities like those when points were taken only to Ferrari and not to their drivers (drivers had no idea what car they drove :roll: ). Just remember how many races have been decided at the “green table” and how many times Ferrari was caught with car outside of regulations, especially in the late ‘90s early ‘00s…
manchild wrote: That is why I’m defending Renault – because the FIA never had balls (and financial interest) to punish Ferrari or MS for pile of their much worse technical and MS’s sporting illegalities but when Renault is in question than they pour sanctions without hesitation and thinking over if what they are doing has any background in current regulations..
Scuderia_Russ wrote:Technical and sporting illegalities?
Illegalities when it matters disrespect of Technical and/or Sporting regulations.
manchild wrote:Where are FIA sanctions for MS for shutting Sato’s visor in Spa?
Scuderia_Russ wrote: Your joking right?
No I’m not. I think that it was Montoya who said something like – “If I’ve done something like that I’d be punished”. What gives MS the right to go around the track and slap other drivers? That was physical attack on another driver and that is highly forbidden (sporting regulations).

How could have MS known that Sato didn’t have some health problems, perhaps breathing problems? Who is he to shut anyone’s visor?! Any other driver would have been punished but not “almighty” MS. Imagine Sato doing that to MS :!: He’d got kick in the butt from F1.

If Pizzonia as you said wasn’t guilty for the accident with Montoya than it confirms that FIA is punishing innocent drivers. :wink:

Regarding Japan - Race director is the same at all events. I see nothing shady about Alonso’s overtaking, for sure he didn’t deliberately choose to overtake over the grass and risk car damage. Even more, if he was deliberate than he wouldn’t let Klien pass by before FIA even made their decision.

I’m not being naïve regarding radio communication. I understand that Alonso was in favor since he was battling for WDC but when did you hear MS asking to overtake Barichello? Even if it was 100% for the public and FIA stewards listening radio communications at least it sounded fair. Don’t forget situations where Alonso was ordered to overtake Fisichella – why was that done if Fisi obviously wouldn’t make problems to Alonso?

Finnaly, Fisi wasn’t hired to play “Alonso’s little helper” as Barrichello. In Ferrari they have clear and unquestionable hierarchy which isn’t the case in any other team.

Flavio admitted that he ordered Fisi to hold back Kimi? Can you please post a link to that statement? Many things can be premeditated but how could have Flavio known that Kimi will enter the pits same time as Fisichella?! I’m not saying that it was impossible for Flavio to radio Fisi when both cars have already turned in and were approaching the pitlane (speed limit sector) but that must have been done extremely fast.
I give up, I really do!
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

RH1300S
RH1300S
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Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 15:29

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Scuderia_Russ wrote:I give up, I really do!
:mrgreen:

Who's going to get the last word??? :-k [-(

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f1.redbaron
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Joined: 31 Jul 2005, 23:29

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Principessa wrote:
jaslfc wrote:ahah.. u still a hypocrite.. fisi still backed up the pack and gave alonso a bigger cushion. fine fisi got penalise but still if it was a ferrari u would have nagged and complain.. pls manchild i enjoy all your post except your on going complain about ferrari but u nvr point out any mistakes renault does~~~
If someone is right you have to be fair and say he's right...not keep an endless discussion...that's what I think. Renault fan or no Renault fan, when they're wrong you have to admit it, same goes for Ferrari fans, McLaren fans.....

Give each other some credit on the Forum and don't say the same thing 5 times to prove you're right. :oops:

I think that what you should've said was "Children, that's enough!!!" :D


------------------
Manchild,

It is because of those actions that I think MS had no reason to get angry as he did. Although, in MS's defence, I remember reading that even Hill admitted that MS was not wrong. With Villeneuve, well that is a different story?

btw, do you have video clips of those two incidents, but any chance? Does anybody?

manchild
manchild
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I give up too regarding Chinese GP :wink:

http://www.farzadsf1gallery.com/feature ... /adel4.mpg
...Lap after lap, Schumacher tried to shake Hill off but the Englishman stayed with him.

As the laps slowly clocked by, suddenly Schumacher lost the front end and went straight into a wall. Hill, unaware of this as he had been blinded by a corner, saw this as his golden opportunity to seize the world title, and made an attempt to pass the German on the inside. For reasons that are too varied and controversial to discuss here, Schumacher turned in on the Williams, his championship hopes in tatters. Hill though, had sustained damage to his suspension, not allowing him to continue, thus handing the title to Schumacher. Hill slowly drove back to the pits to retire, and to ponder what had been a very emotionally draining season.
http://www.lesalondelauto.com/images/fi ... 01997.mpeg
http://www.globalserve.net/~trauttf/Jac ... lision.mpg
http://www.globalserve.net/~trauttf/Jac ... _shuey.mpg

This is OT but don't forget to check this page http://www.farzadsf1gallery.com/features/dijon79.html

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Scuderia_Russ
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If you look at Schumacher's on board he took the normal line for the corner, Hill's left wheel was inline with Schuey's sidepod so Hill was optomistic at best imo.
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

manchild
manchild
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Scuderia_Russ wrote:If you look at Schumacher's on board he took the normal line for the corner, Hill's left wheel was inline with Schuey's sidepod so Hill was optomistic at best imo.
That would be excuse if FIA general sporting regulations (for all racing series) wouldn't say that if during the battle driver who is attacking manages to pass driver in front of him for 50% of cars length than attacked driver's right to choose trajectory ends. Since nose of Hill’s car has reached half of Schuey’s car, Schuey was supposed to stop cutting of Hill and go wider.

RH1300S
RH1300S
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Ooooh............now we are in 1994 :lol:

MS - I have no doubt knew what he was doing when he turned in. DH - maybe could have been a tad brighter and nailed his man later, but really had he seen that MS had hit the wall? Don't know. To me, a racing incident - but right on the edge of un-gentlemanly play by MS and it started a trend............. :-k

manchild
manchild
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RH1300S wrote:...To me, a racing incident - but right on the edge of un-gentlemanly play by MS and it started a trend............. :-k
No, no, no... he started a trend before entering F1 http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=23221
:wink:

Before the race
Image
Mika in lead
Image
Mika hit by Schuey
Image
Schuey DNF too but mission is acompished - he wins F3 championship!
Image
Mika crying
Image
Schuey celebrating
Image
Paraphrasing: "What a wonderful victory… I’m the champion – true sportsman!"

1990 :roll: 1994 :roll: 1995 :roll: 1997 :roll:

jaslfc
jaslfc
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Joined: 19 Nov 2004, 13:47

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ur just jealous of schumacher . aren't you.. :lol: