2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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Jordan44
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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Rosberg, has never and never will accept No. 2 status! After the race he tweeted that he felt he was faster in the first stint so he attacked Lewis to try an overtake and it didn't work so tried to attack in last stint.

This is not the intentions of a Number 2 driver, contracted or otherwise, so it is clear that is no Number 2 clause in Nico's contract.
So you're saying that a number two driver will never drive faster than the number one driver at times? The point is he failed to successfully overtake Lewis and attack. That's the part that makes him number two. The flag dropped and he was second.

Lewis won 11 races last year to his five. He only has to look at this stat to see he is second in the team and will have done. He definitely knows deep down it's an uphill struggle from here to try and beat Lewis.

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dans79
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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PlatinumZealot wrote: This is not the intentions of a Number 2 driver, contracted or otherwise, so it is clear that is no Number 2 clause in Nico's contract.
it might not be in his contract, but if he doesn't seriously challenge Lewis in the next few races, he is going to become the #2 driver as far as the the fans, media, and most importantly the team are concerned. Two more finishes behind Lewis, and even a Lewis DNF & Nico win, won't get Nico into the WDC lead.
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Unc1eM0nty
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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mrluke wrote: If the tyres weren't so fragile then the drivers could fight and appear to have taken a backward step this year all down the grid.

F1 needs to lower the downforce and make the tyres stickier and more durable if it wants more action, until then there will regular dull races like this one.
No way, Ferrari wouldn't have got a look in at Malaysia with bullit proof tires.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Rosberg, has never and never will accept No. 2 status! After the race he tweeted that he felt he was faster in the first stint so he attacked Lewis to try an overtake and it didn't work so tried to attack in last stint.

This is not the intentions of a Number 2 driver, contracted or otherwise, so it is clear that is no Number 2 clause in Nico's contract.
He will have to accept no.2 status or he'll have to find himself another employer. The team comes first. Nico was attacking the team in Q3 and he isn't really showing teamplayer work by being this 'hostile' at the start of the season.

Rosberg's after-race tweets mean squad, he was a angry mad little "insert word here", and he'll claim anything.

he was not faster than lewis in either of the stints. He only closed in on Lewis because Lewis was managing his tires, as tactically intended [ especially taking into account last race where tactics and tires cost them their win ]. It was clear as day how much power Lewis had left in his right foot when he pulled a 'hammer-time' moment when nico pitted. And then there was the life left in the rubber at the race end; plenty: which means he could have driven way more faster.

that means Nico never was a threat to him in the first place, and Lewis was simply managing his race, which is his darn right to do so, especially as being the race leader.

Nico complaining about how hot dirty air would put him in peril to the Ferrari's was absolute nonsense. First of all, regarding the comment above, he never even got close to lewis so 'attacking' never happened so that's not a fact at all.
Neither did he 'attack' in the last stint. To attack, you need to come close enough to be able to engage in battle, and Nico never ever got within attacking range, and if he ever would, Lewis had enough tire life left to simply vanish into the distance.

Nico never had a chance, and he was getting more and more frustrated with it. Especially because the Ferrari at the back came closer through tactics. Meanwhile, after a couple of laps, Vettel got too far back to be even concidered to be a 'challenge'. So really, there never was a real challenge of Ferrari.

Nico's biggest mistake was complaining; Mercedes had great results: a 1-2 finish that essentially never was under danger.

If they ever really get under pressure, it would have been as easy as to need Hamilton to improve his race pace with the clear message that they don't want to get under pressure from Ferrari. IF Nico ever was that close that it hampered his race [ which i genuinly don't believe at all ], then Lewis running faster meant he had more free air so Ferrari would never get within sniffing distance. They really did not either way, so , where's the fire?

If you ask me, the only thing to complain about was Mercedes' statements against Lewis on the radio. That was really uncalled for and seemed misplaced unnecesary and frankly, not at all fitting nor logical.

If you ask me, there's a different story to this; Maurizio Arrivabene talking to Bernie. Bernie wants the best for Ferrari and the best for Mercedes. I would not have been surprised if Bernie staged the scene where the public were to think Ferrari was close enough to engage Mercedes, just for viewer rating and fan pleasure. Meanwhile, Mercedes was in on it so played the game with Lewis having to run less fast so they could come closer. I think Lewis, Toto, Bernie and Maurizio were the ones in on this and neither Rosberg, Vettel or Kimi was aware of this. Perhaps now he is.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Starscreamer
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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GPR-A wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:
WaikeCU wrote:we could well see Verstappen move up, because he's the kid now that is making the headlines along with Hamilton.
It's amazing to think that this is only his second season in single seaters. His first season, last year, saw him come third in F3 but he won more races than anyone else including the champion!

The kid is a real star and, if he gets a good seat and some decent support, then he is future F1 champion in the making.
+1.
What is really amazing is his ability to understand his car's limits in changing conditions, in terms of car performance and constantly changing grip. He did some really good passes at the end of the back straight, late breaking and keeping the car absolutely in right position. In a similar try, Ricciardo failed once before nailing it second time. Although Sainz is equally good driver, but he is making a lot of mistakes like going off track and spinning which is not going to help him as the season progresses, whereas Max is really getting better and better in every race. Considering his lack of experience in single seater, driving that twitchy Renault powered car with such control, only shows the talent that he has. The progress now can only be forward and upward. Hope to see him in a competitive car sooner.
=D>
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Manoah2u
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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Unfortunately, that Toro Rosso is not such an uncompetitive car actually. Better yet, i think it's actually a great car and I think Max can be thoroughly happy with having such a great car under his feet in his F1 debut season.

The only real problem here is the Renault reliability. It seriously hampers his races, that's 2nd DNF thanks to engine issues and he'll get it worse at the end of the year with the penalty's. I think the Renault engines themselves generally have more potential than they're showing, but they are reliability-wise horribly constructed and therefor have to take a good punch out of their performance capability.

I think it would be better as soon as apossible to have Renault get more exposition with the Toro Rosso car - just slam some extra yellow on there, and brand it "Renault Toro Rosso F1 Team" [ Like Infiniti Red Bull Racing Team ], and have Renault invest money and tokens to improve the engine asap. That would put that Toro Rosso up atleast 1 grid position without any driver or environment efforts.

As for Max' results; that boy is a real wonder driver. Concidering the experience he has, he might be the most impressive F1 driver in history, but he can still fall down a long way, too. Remember the 'Verstappen curse' where regulary great results were destroyed becuase of technical failures, paired with some driver errors.

That aside, Kvyat is really underperforming and seems like he's having big difficulties dealing with the RedBull team.
I don't know why that's exactly, but I can see him being replaced by Verstappen in 2016 and perhaps even in mid-2015 though that might not be wise for Verstappen's development and the contract terms.

Apart from that, RedBull looks like 'not the place to be' right now, where Toro Rosso seems uplift and the right place to be.
I'd say let Verstappen have this year @ Toro Rosso and get a 2016 car built to his preferences for next season and see where he can go from there. That would be a great learning experience for him and happy for all sides.

After 2017 with Toro Rosso, i could see him go anywhere he wants, really.

What i really want to see though is him versus Hamilton.

Getting that 'Senna vs Prost', Schumacher vs Senna vibe. The young gun coming in to take on the big guys.

PS. I think it's a good time to praise F1 a bit more. After years of seeing useless and clumsy paydrivers and second-rate drivers coming and going, i genuinly believe there are some names that will become the next generation of 'established' order in F1:

Max Verstappen
Carlos Sainz
Felipe Nasr

together with

Valterri Bottas
Daniel Ricciardo
Sergio Perez
Nico Hulkenberg

Though offcourse it's sad to have lost Jules Bianchi.

Button, Massa, Raikkonen, Alonso are really on the tail end of their careers,
whereas I think there's not a long road left for Grosjean, Maldonado, Kvyat, and Ericsson.
Last edited by Manoah2u on 14 Apr 2015, 00:56, edited 1 time in total.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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J0rd4n wrote:
Rosberg, has never and never will accept No. 2 status! After the race he tweeted that he felt he was faster in the first stint so he attacked Lewis to try an overtake and it didn't work so tried to attack in last stint.

This is not the intentions of a Number 2 driver, contracted or otherwise, so it is clear that is no Number 2 clause in Nico's contract.
So you're saying that a number two driver will never drive faster than the number one driver at times? The point is he failed to successfully overtake Lewis and attack. That's the part that makes him number two. The flag dropped and he was second.

Lewis won 11 races last year to his five. He only has to look at this stat to see he is second in the team and will have done. He definitely knows deep down it's an uphill struggle from here to try and beat Lewis.
I meant number 2 status. As in designated number 2 for the race that is not allowed to overtake... ala Massa and Alonso at Ferrari.
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foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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"Come on, get that Mclaren out of the way" lol Kimi.. Good one :D

max_speed
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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foxmulder_ms wrote:"Come on, get that Mclaren out of the way" lol Kimi.. Good one :D
i feel sorry for iceman , that was only the highlight of his race. he is plain mediocre racing driver even i would rate verstappen above him. for past two years he just keeps cribbing the same. i guess too much alchol in younger age is taking its toll now. ferrari will get rid of him by end of this season.

Manfer
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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max_speed wrote:
foxmulder_ms wrote:"Come on, get that Mclaren out of the way" lol Kimi.. Good one :D
i feel sorry for iceman , that was only the highlight of his race. he is plain mediocre racing driver even i would rate verstappen above him. for past two years he just keeps cribbing the same. i guess too much alchol in younger age is taking its toll now. ferrari will get rid of him by end of this season.
People tend to forget that this years car was solely developed by inputs from Kimi. Alonso was the main driver for 5 years and all he did was push the team down wrong development path. Also i really do not understand why some of them complain about him, he was catching vettle at the end of both the stints(2&3). He might not be the man we saw few years ago but he is much better than most of them. His tyre management skills is next to none (also might explain his quali woes).

evered7
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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max_speed wrote:
foxmulder_ms wrote:"Come on, get that Mclaren out of the way" lol Kimi.. Good one :D
i feel sorry for iceman , that was only the highlight of his race. he is plain mediocre racing driver even i would rate verstappen above him. for past two years he just keeps cribbing the same. i guess too much alchol in younger age is taking its toll now. ferrari will get rid of him by end of this season.

If Kimi is poor, Vettel surely must retire now as well considering he was only a second or two ahead of this mediocre driver in the race.

Kimi lost his Qualifying pace maybe. Not faster like in his prime. But he is an absolute beast in race craft. He will shine in this new Ferrari and if things go according to plan, might drive for Ferrari for 2016 as well as he has that option with them.

foxmulder_ms
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Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 20:36

Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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max_speed wrote:
foxmulder_ms wrote:"Come on, get that Mclaren out of the way" lol Kimi.. Good one :D
i feel sorry for iceman , that was only the highlight of his race. he is plain mediocre racing driver even i would rate verstappen above him. for past two years he just keeps cribbing the same. i guess too much alchol in younger age is taking its toll now. ferrari will get rid of him by end of this season.

Don't feel sorry.

He has millions of dollars, an F1 championship, a hot wife and a Ferrari seat.

maxxer
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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Again I looked at the race and I am shocked about the quality of it. They took so much time to recover the cars it seems that these tracks are never used for racing in the end.
Not like the european tracks which have people experienced in recovering cars.
There will never be a good race in China i promise you because it take them all race to recover 1 car.
But berny get his money

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atanatizante
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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Some thoughts ...
1. Bearing in mind Lewis's race strategy in the second part of the 2014 (with a car setup more towards the race, if not entirely to it !?!) I think Nico is shadowing this tactic, but unfortunately for him this year Ferrari is much closer and he must now go back to alter his setup more towards the qualy for not faceing the same China 2015 race issue.
2. In Brazil 2014 Lewis was in Nico's shoes but he stayed very close to him and did the same tactic at the end of the stint and had he didn't do the 2nd fast lap he could have undercut him.
3. This year with Nico copying Lewis race setup he is constant behind him in the qualy, so we could easily say that on the same conditions: car, setup and so on, Lewis is a better qualifier and another proof is Lewis's 2013 qualy record. We only get misled in 2014, mostly on the second part, but at that time Lewis was focused more towards race.
4. Why Nico didn't speed up a bit when he faced Lewis is conserving his tyres? He could at least test Seb race pace and then managed better his race. Speeding up he could also forced Lewis doing a mistake and trying to make a pass in a couple of laps couldn't ruined his tyres.
5. I don't think Seb would have past him even he managed to get in DRS zone coz Merc has a better traction hence better exit out of turn 13 and Nico beeing 4km/h faster than Seb with DRS on it would end up being only 8-9 km/h delta between them when Seb was in DRS zone, which I think it's not enough to pass Nico, Ferrari didn't had here that speed advantage we've seen in Malaysia ... Btw. at the present which delta speed is minimum necessary to pass a car?
6. One reason Nico has had more tyre issues than Lewis is his race setup coz he was quicker in S3 being 2km/h faster then Lewis on the straight and slower in S1&2 sectors when downforce is more needed, hence having less DF he couldn't do the same tyre management and that issue was enhanced by lapping in Lewis's dirty air.
7. I think Lewis was a bit lucky in Nico's second pit stop, coz at that time had he faced some traffic he couldn't have been able to do those hot laps and ended being undercut by Nico.
8. Lewis did a 1.42.2 time on 16 laps used soft tyres and was almost 1sec. faster then Seb on the fresh medium tyres and on the same fuel and time period. So what's the real Merc pace knowing the above facts and also knowing in the race delta time between the tyres was somewhat 0,8-1,2 sec.?

My two cents :)
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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2015 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 10-12

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atanatizante wrote:Some thoughts ...
1. Bearing in mind Lewis's race strategy in the second part of the 2014 (with a car setup more towards the race, if not entirely to it !?!) I think Nico is shadowing this tactic, but unfortunately for him this year Ferrari is much closer and he must now go back to alter his setup more towards the qualy for not faceing the same China 2015 race issue.
An absurd assumption, despite repeated clarifications from Merc that they both get same setup and Nico explaining in Suzuka that he and Lewis had exactly same setup, but Nico was struggling with a lot of oversteer compared to Lewis. If indeed Lewis' set up was race oriented (assuming i means a compromise on quali) in second half last season, then he must be some of a god to go and get pole in Monza (by almost half a second), Singapore and Sochi, despite having race oriented setup?
My argument has always been that, Lewis was loosing out in qualifying last year, because of break problems (failed breaks, glazing etc., that made him lose confidence in late breaking) and trying to overdo things (mistakes). Last year, almost in every qualifying Lewis was locking up the wheels (radio rant - "THIS THING IS GETTING LOCKED UP MAN"), but this year, no sign of it as Merc would have resolved that problem. We are not at all talking about Brembo and Carbon Industrie for the last 3 GPs, co-incidence? More confidence in breaking this year, resulting in better qualifying performances. He got 2 poles this year just with banker laps and not on final fliers.

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