2016 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, Fri 10 – Sun 12 Jun

[bdr529]

Anyway, here are some of the random pictures I took over the weekend, enjoy.

some good looking shots TAG, look forward to seeing some more photo's,

[TAG]

Vettel looked untouchable with those RBs as Hamilton looks with such a dominant car. Its more interesting to watch how they behaved in 2014(Vettel) or 2011(Hamilton). They didnt look so good, uh?

It's comments like this that make me roll my eyes when people go so far out on a limb to "prove" a position that's been built on a shaky foundation.

In 2011 and 2014 what you call Vettel's and Hamilton's bad years, they weren't quite the same were they?

Vettel 2014:
0 victories
4 podiums
Was out qualified by his teammate
beat his teammate 5 out of 19 times

Hamilton 2011:
3 victories
3 podiums
Out qualified his teammate
beat his team mate 9 out of 19 despite having more retirements and a Massa and Maldonado that had it out for him.

Now for the fun stuff, more random weekend pics.









Not a good day for Haas at all, here Grosjean taking entirely too much kerb during qualifying.





This would be one fun daily driver!





...and the victory lap.

[Phil]

Those are some very nice pictures TAG, thanks. Mind sharing with what kind of equipment you took those pics (I'm a bit of a keen photographer myself, hence the curiosity). I think there's even a more photography related topic somewhere in the off-topic area....

[FW17]

[LionKing]

Vettel looked untouchable with those RBs as Hamilton looks with such a dominant car. Its more interesting to watch how they behaved in 2014(Vettel) or 2011(Hamilton). They didnt look so good, uh?

It's comments like this that make me roll my eyes when people go so far out on a limb to "prove" a position that's been built on a shaky foundation.

In 2011 and 2014 what you call Vettel's and Hamilton's bad years, they weren't quite the same were they?

Vettel 2014:
0 victories
4 podiums
Was out qualified by his teammate
beat his teammate 5 out of 19 times

Hamilton 2011:
3 victories
3 podiums
Out qualified his teammate
beat his team mate 9 out of 19 despite having more retirements and a Massa and Maldonado that had it out for him.

Compared to:
Ricciardo
3 wins and 5 more podiums

Button 2011
3 wins and 9 more podiums

Button had 2 mechanical retirements compared to 3 retirements by accident for Lewis. Only one of those accidents was Lewis's fault though (taking out Kobayashi in Spa).

As for Massa vs Lewis, apart from one race India in which Massa was penalized, Hamilton hit Massa in Silverstone, Monaco, Singapore and Suzuka.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbsRml4tM7g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M_ZTY0xWvM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEkZVNWQYA

[TAG]

Vettel looked untouchable with those RBs as Hamilton looks with such a dominant car. Its more interesting to watch how they behaved in 2014(Vettel) or 2011(Hamilton). They didnt look so good, uh?

It's comments like this that make me roll my eyes when people go so far out on a limb to "prove" a position that's been built on a shaky foundation.

In 2011 and 2014 what you call Vettel's and Hamilton's bad years, they weren't quite the same were they?

Vettel 2014:
0 victories
4 podiums
Was out qualified by his teammate
beat his teammate 5 out of 19 times

Hamilton 2011:
3 victories
3 podiums
Out qualified his teammate
beat his team mate 9 out of 19 despite having more retirements and a Massa and Maldonado that had it out for him.

Compared to:
Ricciardo
3 wins and 5 more podiums

Button 2011
3 wins and 9 more podiums

Button had 2 mechanical retirements compared to 3 retirements by accident for Lewis. Only one of those accidents

Thank you LionKing, that's exactly my point, that was what the previous poster is touting as Lewis' "bad" year. While 2014 was Ricciardo's best season to date, and 2011 was Button's finest season of his career. I should know, I was also in Canada as well that race, when he bumped both Lewis AND Alonso to take the win from Vettel.

Why the comparisons that are no comparisons at all?

[mrluke]

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa3 ... rsq482.jpg

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj5 ... tczwzg.jpg

Looking at that, the normal car looks stupidly long now. Cannot unsee!

[diffuser]

I think there should be penalties for stuff like that. The driver on the inside should not be allowed to knock the outside driver off the track and get away with it. On the one hand we says we need to leave space but then when I driver knocks another driver off the track, they say " it wasn't avoidable" Sure it was if he went in slower. It already hard enough to pass without allowing the inside car knock the outside car off the track,

I fail to see where Hamilton didn't leave Rosberg enough space. To me it seems that at the point of contact Rosberg had a lot more real estate to play with than Hamilton.
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg6 ... pture2.png
http://pmd.foxsports.com.au/images/2016 ... 045609.jpg

If you look at a couple of frames down from that you'll see Hamilton bumps Roseberg and Roseberg goes off the track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18hRimduFEc

To boot Roseberg was ahead(just barely).

[TAG]

And then you look at this and ask what's the difference? Short memories I guess. It's racing, it's turn one, it's a give and take, but people tend make up their mind based on their desired outcome.

https://youtu.be/vQWkPGCqmOc

[Vasconia]

Thank you LionKing, that's exactly my point, that was what the previous poster is touting as Lewis' "bad" year. While 2014 was Ricciardo's best season to date, and 2011 was Button's finest season of his career. I should know, I was also in Canada as well that race, when he bumped both Lewis AND Alonso to take the win from Vettel.

Why the comparisons that are no comparisons at all?

Still was a worse year for Hamilton if you compare to other ones. I mean, he had more incidents and he made more mistakes.

Plus sorry, but Button outqualified Hamilton this year.

1 Sebastian Vettel 392
2 Jenson Button 270
3 Mark Webber 258
4 Fernando Alonso 257
5 Lewis Hamilton 227


270 points vs 227 points. So Jenson had more points and more podiums, when everybody thought Lewis was going to smash Jenson, plus Lewis had some mistakes and stupid battles with Massa. I stil maintain that 2011 was not a good year for him. Stil he is so good that he can win if he has a good car.

[Phil]

You have a very short memory - or perhaps, it's due to the fact that you're just looking at the point tally and forgetting about all the events that made the 2011 what it was.

For instance, at Monaco, Hamilton was unlucky and never get to contest in a lap for pole due to the fact that Perez had an accident in the worst possible moment and the resulting red flag made a lap impossible. The result was that he started 9th, even though he was clearly the pacesetter in Q1 and Q2. Button who didn't have the pace, during none of the Q sessions, ended up starting from 2nd that race. Bear in mind that Monaco is next to impossible to overtake - a lot of frustration that came through there and yet, he was able to finish 6th.

Next race Canada, the one Button came on to win? Hamilton was actually quicker and was attempting to overtake Button when Button, clearly blind to the fact that Hamilton was attempting an overtake due to his error coming out of the chicane, shunted him into the wall. I have no doubt that had that shunt not happened, Hamilton would have finished in front of Button as a result of that. 25 points out the window.

Hungary, where Button won, it was actually Hamilton who was leading much of the GP from a 9 second lead. Towards the end of the race, there was a brief shower that caused Hamilton to spun and Button to catch up. They traded places (which was crucial for pit priority) to which Hamilton prevailed and went for the intermediates. Unlucky for him, because this allowed Button to stay out another lap which then made it clear that the track was already starting to dry out and would not make sense to come in. The result being that Button lucked into that position through circumstance and went on to win the race. Due to that, Hamilton finished 4th, instead of 1st.

Spa, another retirement for Hamilton, has he overtook the Kobayashi. The pass was completed, Kobayashi wasn't even in contention for the same position, he didn't defend nor do anything - the only thing that caught Lewis out was that the Sauber had such an impressive straight line speed that he was able to close up heading up to corner. Hamilton who thought the Sauber was further behind, moved slightly to the outside for the ideal racing line into the corner and nicked Kobayashi's wing which caused him to spin and go into the barriers. A bit of bad luck, could happen to anyone. Cost him a lot of points. Meanwhile, Button who didn't even make it into Q3 and started 13th, had a messy start that and damage to his McLaren and an early pit stop, somehow made it onto the podium. Ironically, the safety car from Hamiltons crash also played a decisive role.

Monza, Hamilton again outqualifyed Button, but later in the race got stuck behind Schumacher. He ruined his tires, Button closed up, passed Lewis and Schumacher and that was it. Fair play to Button, that was a very well driven race by him. (Credit where it is due).

Singapore was a messy race for Lewis (with Massa) and Japan, Button just drove extraordinary, also outqualifying Lewis.

Brazil marked another retirement issue for Lewis, with a gearbox issue costing him a lot of points.

Anyway, Button drove a very good season. Very consistent, but nothing extraordinary. He certainly didn't outqualify Lewis, in fact in most races, there was always a rather big gap between the two. If you look at the races closely, or go back and actually watch them, you will see that there are quite a few reasons how someone who was outqualified more often than not, usually finished the race in a better position, and not through faster race pace, but a lot of circumstance. I pointed out quite a few above that lead to a lot of lost points. Yes, Hamilton did have a messy year, but his raw pace was never in dispute. And in many races where he did actually end up behind Button despite outqualifying were just down to bad luck, bad decision calls or unpredictable circumstance going in Buttons favor.

[Vasconia]

You always have a reason(or excuse) when its about Hamilton, dont you?

Hungary was a mistake, nothing more, nothing less. Canada´s incident is something interesting to discuss about, I consider yet another super optimistic move from Hamilton, but I guess he is always right.

Button did what Button does, nothing extraordinary but always consistent. Hamilton had a season with more incidents sometimes because he was too impulsive. It wasnt his best season, THIS IS THE ONLY THING I HAVE SAID. Calm down, sometimes it seems that only a blind praise is acceptable when someone speaks about Hamilton.

[Phil]

No I don't. Hence why - surprise - I made an effort to point out races in which Button did impress (Singapore and especially Japan). At least I actually have a fair good memory of the incidents that caused and shaped the results in 2011. Button has always been a very consistent driver, but during his match up with Lewis in their 3 years at McLaren, he was rarely competitive in qualifying. He usually started behind, and quite a bit further back too and yet, somehow in 2011, he managed to finish ahead on quite a few occasions. Doesn't that strike you as being odd? I actually went through a bit of effort to explain why that happened. It's called 'circumstance'. Sometimes, races don't pan out the most logical, predictable way.

There are countless of incidents such as these that have shaped extraordinary results throughout the history of F1. In the old days, safety cars used to create chaos to the order, shaping winners that were in the right place and the right time while others who were better, had the pace advantage, were simply caught out.

I really don't think there's much to say beyond the fact that Button beat Hamilton on points in a season where a lot went miraculously well for Button and Hamilton a lot of bad luck (gearbox Brazil, Monaco no Q3 lap, Hungary weather gods, , some scrappy maneuvers that ended badly [mainly with Massa], Malaysia Alonso incident that caused him to lose 3rd and end 8th).

It's quite strange when in nearly every single race where Button finished ahead of Hamilton in 2011, there was some incident that either had Hamilton involved in an technical issue or other incident, while on all occasions that Hamilton finished ahead of Button, there are none that could be used to explain how Button should have finished in front of his team-mate...

[dans79]

You always have a reason(or excuse) when its about Hamilton, dont you?

Can the mods please close this thread, people repeating the same old garbage is getting really old.

[Vasconia]

You always have a reason(or excuse) when its about Hamilton, dont you?

Can the mods please close this thread, people repeating the same old garbage is getting really old.

I agree with the idea of closing the thread. Its pretty boring to receive insults when people dont agree with you. Its amazing the amount of hate I have received just for saying that 2011 was not a good season for Lewis. Just this.

I am a long time fan of Michael Schumacher and I have no problems to say that 2010 was a sh*t season for him, no excuses about that. 2011 and 2012 were not good either but I least I saw some good performances by him.

Closed thread for me, this is only F1, no intentions of having bad blood with anyone. I truly enjoy discussing here, always with good atmosphere if its possible!.