2016 European Grand Prix - Baku City Circuit, Fri 17 – Sun 19 Jun

[GrayGreat]

from what has now emerged it seems that rosberg created the fault on his car himself so knew where it lay and hence could turn it back ; second time he has done that in 4 races
in hamilton's case the wrong setting was made by the team on friday night and he knew almost from the start , presumably as soon as DRS was enabled ; as previously stated it had already caused his qually problems although he thought it was his own fault

If this problem was in quali, team would have fixed it easily between quali sessions. But you can keep clutching at straws...

[Andres125sx]

Vintage Alonso start, would have been sick if it worked.

Vintage start? What do you mean? I missed it

He got Hamilton around the outside of Turn 1. If Max hadn't been there, he would have ended up P8/P9.

Thanks, I watched it now. Almost!

[Roman]

from what has now emerged it seems that rosberg created the fault on his car himself so knew where it lay and hence could turn it back ; second time he has done that in 4 races
in hamilton's case the wrong setting was made by the team on friday night and he knew almost from the start , presumably as soon as DRS was enabled ; as previously stated it had already caused his qually problems although he thought it was his own fault

The team changed engine settings in a certain mode and got something wrong there. Rosberg started on a different mode so when he changed it to the "faulty" mode he immediately knew what to do (which was to simply change back). Ham on the other hand started in the faulty mode therefore he had a much harder time figuring out what was wrong and how to fix it.

I doubt this faulty mode caused Hamiltons qualy problems. The main problem was the derating at the second drs straight. Ham complained about it ("Derates everywhere"). He would certainly have known if this had happened in Q.

[basti313]

Well, unfortunately only some people understand his 'team radio' rant. I don't know of any driver who doesn't 'mourn' on the radio.

Sure. Team Radio is great and needs to be taken carefully. I love reading the transcripts, you always find nice emotional things like Alonso last race lap 60 conversation:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/06/16/2 ... ranscript/
I did not realize the "Argh" during the race.

Secondly, I think the radio rules are an absolute joke. I'm with you that it robbed us of a 'coming through the field drive' from Lewis and a spectacle of sorts. I would have been very interested to see how Perez and Vettel did against Hamilton.

I do not see why. For me this is a 100% wrong conclusion. Ham did not have the pace to overtake Perez before the problems occurred and did not have any pace when the problems disappeared. And according to Paddy it cost only a few tenth. We are not talking about a problem, that cost him seconds.
With all the Ham praining one needs to be a bit realistic: He simply did not have the pace in this race.
- He lost 3sec on Perez in free air in the first stint, he lost even more on Vet or Ros who were doing 5 laps more in this stint.
- The problem occured from lap 25 to lap 37 to my knowledge. He was lapping high 48, low 49 from lap 18 to lap 40, no drop of laptime visible. Perez was lapping a second faster on average the full second stint.
- Even with compromised car until lap 40, when he started to be really fast for a short time, he would have catched Rai with a little bit more speed than Ros was doing.

I agree about the tire, though I do feel somewhat that had that been the case with any other driver out of the midfield, no one would have cared nor would it have been an issue at all. .... . Maybe it's because it's Hamilton, or because some people who are supporting Rosberg feel that they need to jump at everything that narrows the gap somewhat.

Of course it is something completely different if the rules are streched for Rosberg, Hamilton or Vettel, than for Wehrlein or Harianto. Please do not make a "no one likes my Ham" case out of this. It would be exactly the same discussion for anyone else from the top drivers. And according to the past this "damaged tire" rule was never applied, unless the tire was really punctured, so I see no reason to make a precedent now. And after they made another precedent with brake specifications...this has some bad taste.

The tires were quite damaged in Q2. ...... And on a track like Baku - narrow walls and very high speeds, you don't want a tire blowout at all.

The teams monitor vibrations really carefully. And they surely have an eye on the vibrations after a flat spot. So if the flat spot was really a security problem, they should have stopped Ham on the track wherever he was in Q2 or get him slowly to the pits. This would have been the clear case for me, when the "damaged tire" rule should have been applied. But they decided to let him run two more laps on this tire...for me this clearly shows, that the tire is ok.

While I do get the argument that changing the tires should have imposed some kind of penalty. I do think there are other parts that have been declared as ok to replace without a penalty if they fail to meet certain security standards.

The tire rule is another rule. You are mixing things that do not belong together: Within the parc fermé rule you can exchange nearly everything, unless it is the same spec and setting, even if you only suspect damage. The tire rule clearly states "damaged".

Also to be fair; he didn't get a fresh set of tires, but a set that was deemed to have similar mileage (without the damage). So it's hard to say he gained an advantage because of it, nor would it suggest that others might do something like that on purpose (in the future) to gain the same advantage. So IMO - it wasn't such a big deal.

No. He changed to a tire with 4 laps and only a 1:44:7 on it on a car that can do a 1:42... All other SS sets were flatspotted.
So Ham can undoubtedly say "thank you FIA".
I hope you are right that noone will use this...but I fear we will have this discussion more often in the future...

[Andres125sx]

As for this race, for me only 2 things stood out

1) Perez another magnificient performance, bloke deserves to be in a GP-winning car. Ferrari, Merc. please get him a 2017 Ferrari seat alongside Seb.
2) this GP is the most boring, underwhelming GP i've seen in ages. I don't know what it was, as at first it seemed all the elements were there for a spectacular venue but have i ever been let down. And that long straight doesnt do anything special either. Frankly, the long straight is a bit boring and to be honest a bit tricky and potentially dangerous. I would rather have seen these speeds with classic tracks with grass alongside it and a long runoff area (with a grass part in between). This just is rediculous for a streetcircuit. I hoped much from this GP but it underwhelmed and it was dull and boring to bits. i hope this was a one-time only event.

and finally,
Hamilton needs to up his game. Rosberg grows the lead on him once again, and though the sun might have played some part on Lewis' error in qually, the fact is 21 other drivers that experienced the same sun in their eyes had no problems. That touche cost him his qually, and instead of having a decent go at the start, he was more or less 'neutral'. Sure, setting problems did not help him but still. I really did enjoy seeing Alonso rocket himself around the outside of Lewis, too bad the gap ended and he had to brake, that was a brilliant move of Fernando.

I can only come to this conclusion now:

Alonso NEEDS a WDC capable car FAST. this is just torture.
Lewis NEEDS to up his game. I think his trackside manners are hurting him (party all the time).
Ferrari NEEDS to up their game. They did good, but it should have been amazing. Where is the 'amazing' in Ferrari?
This track is poor and boring af. quickly pull it out of its misery and never drive here again. The shame of it all is that a monumental city has now gotten a layer of asphalt on a once great looking brick road around the tower. are they able to remove that or is it ruined forever?

With all the examples of the past years, and having Mexico as the game-changing new super-venue, one would have expected more from Baku.

I completely agree with everything you said

The race was one of the most boring this season, and that was a surprise after all the talk about walls, SCs, etc

I think I´m done with this save fuel and save tires formula. I´d like to know what percentage of a race drivers really push to the limits, because I think that´s main problem by far. When drivers don´t need to push to the limit, there´re no mistakes, everything becomes predictable, driver role is further minimized, and excitement is gone

DRS adds to the problem, what´s the reason any driver should assume any risk if he has such a big advantage at the straight? None, so there´s no real battles either

The fact drivers can´t push to the limit, and don´t need to fight for position either, is killing the sport IMHO

[Powy]

According to Motorsport and Amus Red Bull's tire problems were caused by the low downforce setup which made the cars slide and the tires overheat.

[Kiril Varbanov]

That was extremely dull race. Bring on the nice tracks. I literally fell asleep, it was 16:30 local time, but...

[lebesset]

from what has now emerged it seems that rosberg created the fault on his car himself so knew where it lay and hence could turn it back ; second time he has done that in 4 races
in hamilton's case the wrong setting was made by the team on friday night and he knew almost from the start , presumably as soon as DRS was enabled ; as previously stated it had already caused his qually problems although he thought it was his own fault

If this problem was in quali, team would have fixed it easily between quali sessions. But you can keep clutching at straws...

not permitted under sporting regulations ....don't suppose they realised anyway as hamilton hadn't reported a problem anyway , thought it was his fault

[Vasconia]

These skills having nothing to do with the multitude of stickers him (and every other driver) has in the cockpit for different modes etc.?

Well, it about studying carefully all the options you have in your steering Wheel in order to use them if you a problem and knowing that you wont receive any help from the Wall.

The drivers drove very carefully because they "feared" a chaotic race like what happened in GP2. I dont call them cowards but this attitude is slightly disappointing.

[iotar__]

According to Motorsport and Amus Red Bull's tire problems were caused by the low downforce setup which made the cars slide and the tires overheat.

Fine but wouldn't that apply to everyone, did they change something during the race since their biggest problems were on SS: five laps for Verstappen . I don't know if was posted: AmuS about Merc engine modes. https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 53361.html If I understand it correctly:
- it cost Hamilton 0,2 s according to Wolff, so not a lot, he fixed it in the end by accident and wasn't that quick anyway, tyres, braking (in case usual myths appear). Only beating Raikkonen was possible without problems.
- Rosberg same problem, lap 27 (didn't have to use it before), took him half a lap to correct it, had it easier supposedly since it was the only new variable.
- the whole Hamilton - Bonnington exchange made me laugh to be honest.

[PhillipM]

Hamilton said he fixed it for one lap then it came back - which he set purple sectors in when it was working...

[Schuttelberg]

Hamilton said he fixed it for one lap then it came back - which he set purple sectors in when it was working...

No, he simply turned the engine down himself to save it as he realised he wouldn't catch and pass Perez.

[basti313]

Hamilton said he fixed it for one lap then it came back - which he set purple sectors in when it was working...

No, he simply turned the engine down himself to save it as he realised he wouldn't catch and pass Perez.

Which was a fault, because he could have easily catched Rai with the speed of Ros and the penalty.

[Phil]

Please do not make a "no one likes my Ham" case out of this. It would be exactly the same discussion for anyone else from the top drivers.

The teams monitor vibrations really carefully. And they surely have an eye on the vibrations after a flat spot. So if the flat spot was really a security problem, they should have stopped Ham on the track wherever he was in Q2 or get him slowly to the pits. This would have been the clear case for me, when the "damaged tire" rule should have been applied. But they decided to let him run two more laps on this tire...for me this clearly shows, that the tire is ok.

I feel I'm not the one who is making the case "no one likes my Ham". I'm pointing out what you yourself are demonstrating.

Fact: The FIA deemed the tire to be "damaged" and on those grounds allowed, as per the regulations, to be changed without any penalty.

So after pointing out how 'the teams monitor vibrations really carefully' and should have stopped him (and did not) and how this all proves to you that the tire was "ok" - why do you think they were allowed to change the tire, if it wasn't damaged?

I'm happy to agree that the rule needs to clarified to protect against misuse. I'd rather have them change a tire then seeing a driver in the wall because of a technicality. Actually, strike that. I don't like these super sensitive tires anyway. Bring back refueling and find a good compromise between the tires we have now and what we had during the Bridgestone era and I'd be quite happy.

[SR71]

So how much time were Red Bull losing to Mercedes on THE straight now that we have all the data?

That's the problem with F1, at big teams they replaced professionals talking (you could at least deduct something when it was Allison at Lotus) with marketing and/or loudmouths. Alonso:

"We know that the deficit we have now: around six or seven tenths in one straight,"

That's not really an answer though. This thread spent 3-4 pages bashing and calling names to Marko yet now that we have 51 laps of sector 3 data I don't hear anyone using evidence to back up their claims.

I guess it's just more anti red bull F1T bias... People here seem to love hating on red bull just for the fun of it.