2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

[Shrieker]

I think too powerful DRS has hurt racing here recently. Unless severely underpowered faster cars just breeze past others.

I think when you consider the length of one lap, this is a circuit that clearly deserves a lot more than 2 DRS zones, albeit shorter.

[foxmulder_ms]

We are officially half way through the summer break. Two weeks to race-day guys!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... erview.jpg

Cannot wait for my favorite track!!

[Andres125sx]

I try hard to not be like so many on here but I can't help it,,,That's just plain dumb.
Pirelli is hardly incompetent. They make excellent tires and have since1872, longer than Michelin who came along after Avon/Cooper.
Incompetent indeed!

Indeed

Experience is not always related to expertise I´m afraid. Even if Michelin came along after, I´d never pay a single cent or same price for a Pirelli tire if there´s available a Michelin tire for my car. Period.

I´m afraid people involved in racing at highest level think the same for their racing environement. At least I know one who does.

one swallow does not a summer make
strange how many high performance car makers fit pirelli by choice after having carried out exhaustive tests ...unless the one person you know who is involved in racing at the highest level knows better than them

1- I never said they´re useless, I said for same price I do prefer Michelin hands down.
2- Car makers do worry about many things wich are irrelevant to tire manufacturing expertise, from price/discount for using any specific tire brand, to what interest do that brand put on building an specific tire for your car. Both irrelevant about tire manufacturing quality, but very important for car makers
3- Each car has specific requirements, so fitting the correct tire is a very important point, wich again is irrelevant to general tire quality (if we´re talking about decent tires). If X tire is the perfect match for Y car that does not mean X tire is the best tire on market, far from that.

[OO7]

I think too powerful DRS has hurt racing here recently. Unless severely underpowered faster cars just breeze past others.

I don't recall that happening between similarly paced cars. The "breeze past" manoeuvres generally happen when the car doing the passing significantly faster.

[lebesset]

Indeed

Experience is not always related to expertise I´m afraid. Even if Michelin came along after, I´d never pay a single cent or same price for a Pirelli tire if there´s available a Michelin tire for my car. Period.

I´m afraid people involved in racing at highest level think the same for their racing environement. At least I know one who does.

one swallow does not a summer make
strange how many high performance car makers fit pirelli by choice after having carried out exhaustive tests ...unless the one person you know who is involved in racing at the highest level knows better than them

1- I never said they´re useless, I said for same price I do prefer Michelin hands down.
2- Car makers do worry about many things wich are irrelevant to tire manufacturing expertise, from price/discount for using any specific tire brand, to what interest do that brand put on building an specific tire for your car. Both irrelevant about tire manufacturing quality, but very important for car makers
3- Each car has specific requirements, so fitting the correct tire is a very important point, wich again is irrelevant to general tire quality (if we´re talking about decent tires). If X tire is the perfect match for Y car that does not mean X tire is the best tire on market, far from that.[/quotee]

clearly you haven't been involved in the OE tyre market ; although tyres are always tested by the vehicle manufacturer for any new model to ensure they are suitable ,at the end it comes down to price and politics for family models, virtually all tyres get a pass mark

but you notice I referred to high performance vehicles which is where Pirelli have a big market share ; whereas vehicle manufacturers have to accept what tyre manufacturers offer in the 'family' market , they will pay extra to get the product which enhances their premium high performance offerings

so unless you have the test results for your car [ which I no longer do now that I am retired ] why buy michelin just because they make the size ? maybe when the tests were done michelin were not approved as an OE fitment because they skewed their design towards a particular customer ; let me give you an example ....2 manufacturers in the same country using the same tyre size , one on a FWD car , the other RWD ; one said that the steering response was too sensitive , the other that it was too insensitive !

I'am afraid it is much more complicated than you suggest !

[Andres125sx]

but you notice I referred to high performance vehicles which is where Pirelli have a big market share ; whereas vehicle manufacturers have to accept what tyre manufacturers offer in the 'family' market , they will pay extra to get the product which enhances their premium high performance offerings

I know, I was thinking about high perfomance too, specifically about Veyron´s tires, designed specifically for the car by Michelin

Anycase this discussion is going out of proportion, I only tried to reply strad who mentioned Pirelli longer experience as a crucial factor to lean the balance or not considering Michelin as a Pirelli replacement. I only mentioned many people, from family users like myself to top car manufacturers like Bugatti or racing engineers, do prefer Michelin. It was just an example I was not pretending a pirelli-michelin debate

so unless you have the test results for your car [ which I no longer do now that I am retired ]

No I have not, but I´ve always enjoied doing comparisons so now I´m jelous about your former job But since I like doing comparisons I´ve tested most tire manufacturers for my car to learn the differences. I noticed even when Michelin is not the brand with the highest grip level, it is the one wich last longer from those with very good grip level (Michelin, Pirelli, GoodYear wich is the best in wet conditions by far, Continental wich was a nice surprise to me...). There are tires with lower wear but many are like a piece of wood, and there are tires with better grip but they can´t match Michelin mileage. IMHO they´re the better balanced tires. For normal cars at least, I´ve never own a high perfomance car

why buy michelin just because they make the size ? maybe when the tests were done michelin were not approved as an OE fitment because they skewed their design towards a particular customer ; let me give you an example ....2 manufacturers in the same country using the same tyre size , one on a FWD car , the other RWD ; one said that the steering response was too sensitive , the other that it was too insensitive !

I'am afraid it is much more complicated than you suggest !

I don´t like to generalize, but you´re right I did it here too easily. It´s probably due to my opinion at the respect of current F1 tires... they´re crap! I know FIA has a big part of the responsability, but tires wich cannot be pushed hard and even so they last few laps... they´re artificially sweetening F1 and I hate it. With tires wich force drivers to drive well below the limit driver role is at its minimum ever. What´s the point of a fast driver who can go to the limit constantly without making mistakes (wich is the advantage of the greatests), when tires don´t allow that and all drivers must go at similar pace?

I really hate this.


End of rant, sorry for the OT

[ChrisDanger]

Spotted on the Autobahn today... Off to Belgium perhaps?

[godlameroso]

Ok one week away, time for a horribly inaccurate weather prediction. May be a chance of rain on Sunday, less chance on Saturday almost no chance on Friday. Last year the winning strategy was a 3 stopper. In other words four 11 lap stints, I expect this year to be similar, the high fuel consumption will mean that to go fast you'll have to rely on the tires and use your straight line speed strategically. Spa is famous for a last minute downpour to destroy people's races, hopefully this year we get some of that action.

*Tire wise, the super soft will be useless for the race, the soft tire may not be able to go a full 11 laps without careful management making the medium tire probably the best race tire in case the weather is perfectly ideal, as you'll be able to push for 11 laps easily. Fastest race lap will be a 1:52'ish, possibly lower with a short final stint on some sticky tires.

[Pierce89]

Spotted on the Autobahn today... Off to Belgium perhaps?

http://i.imgur.com/cf5L65X.jpg

One would think. Unless someone in Germany just bought a butt load of CNC machines.

[F1NAC]

*Tire wise, the super soft will be useless for the race, the soft tire may not be able to go a full 11 laps without careful management making the medium tire probably the best race tire in case the weather is perfectly ideal, as you'll be able to push for 11 laps easily. Fastest race lap will be a 1:52'ish, possibly lower with a short final stint on some sticky tires.

If that's the case then it will be interesting to follow Ferrari's race strategy

[godlameroso]

It could work for them, clearly the soft is faster than the medium tire, but sector 2 is very hard on the tires with lots of high speed turns, so in the end the soft could be no faster than the medium over a stint. It's a question of when do you want the lap time, towards the end or the beginning of the stint?

[ChrisDanger]

Official F1 track preview, Coulthard commentating on the track and Hamilton's lap.

Can't embed the video so head over to YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTMRIdjfsSg

[Juzh]

Official F1 track preview, Coulthard commentating on the track and Hamilton's lap.

Can't embed the video so head over to YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTMRIdjfsSg

At least they could have used some other car's laptime since this one is already in the onboard lap section of the f1.com

[ChrisDanger]

Oh well, so much for the raindancing...
https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/768017570607824897

[PlatinumZealot]

Oh well, so much for the raindancing...

https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/768017570607824897

I wanted rain in order to preserve HAM's engine. Should have sacrificed some animal or something.