2017 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, 24 - 26 March

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JonoNic
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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dans79 wrote:
JonoNic wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:54 am
1 Ham 2 Vet 3 Bot. Now we can see if Mercedes will struggle to follow with that intricate aero.
Depends on the start, or if they can get another dry lap in.
I think that Mercs lack of aero rake is causing them to struggle when they follow other cars. In clean air they are fine. This might turn out to be a big issue this year if Mercedes cannot stay out ahead.

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ecapox
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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You are basing the Mercedes loss squarely on the aero rake of the car?

Bold move Cotton. Bold move.

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Sniffit
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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Massa showed that he's still got it, Kvyat had a great race up until they had heating issues. Feel sorry for Grosjean and Ericsson. No idea what the hell Stroll and Magnussen were doing, unless they intentionally tried to lower our expectations they failed misserably.

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JonoNic
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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ecapox wrote:You are basing the Mercedes loss squarely on the aero rake of the car?

Bold move Cotton. Bold move.
Not bashing at all. However, they tend to struggle more than others that's all. Ferrari and RB develop their aero to follow cars as they were not front runners. Mercedes didn't have this issue before. Their aero package is totally different to other teams and that is what I'm sumizing.

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Unc1eM0nty
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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Good race, pity is so hard to over take here, I'm looking forward to racing on some proper tracks too.

Ferrari were quicker on the first trye stint, Merc we're dammed either way, if Vettel had closed the gap and done the undercut we'd all be say saying "Suckers!", Merc covered what they thought was the most likely threat, yes they got it wrong but as we all know hindsight is a marvelous thing :)

I've not had a chance to watch yet but from what I've read Lewis was first to pit is that right ? if so than that's a shocker to me, they've been once of the lightest on their tyes up to now, they've always been able to go long where they don't need to worry about coming out in traffic, bad trye & track combination for them ? time will tell. .

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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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Shrieker wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:12 am
Had Hamilton stayed 3-4 laps more they risked being undercut by Vettel, after it was certain that Vettel would come out ahead of Verstappen. So they were between the rock and a hard place.
Well, sort of.
In hindsight in my opionen the only "correct" strategy would have been to pit HAM as soon as he would clear VER after the stop. Because VET was about 1sec behind the undercut wouldn't have worked beforehand. And HAMs pace in clear air on fresh softs was acutally quicker than VET on used ultras so without VER the overcut wouldn't have worked either.
VET seemed quicker on softs but in no way quick enough to overtake HAM, track position seems to be even more important this season.

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Unc1eM0nty
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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JonoNic wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:22 am
dans79 wrote:
JonoNic wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:54 am
1 Ham 2 Vet 3 Bot. Now we can see if Mercedes will struggle to follow with that intricate aero.
Depends on the start, or if they can get another dry lap in.
I think that Mercs lack of aero rake is causing them to struggle when they follow other cars. In clean air they are fine. This might turn out to be a big issue this year if Mercedes cannot stay out ahead.

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The more down force a car has the more they have too loose, the faster cars will suffer most - it's a simple as that

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JonoNic
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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Unc1eM0nty wrote:
JonoNic wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:22 am
dans79 wrote: Depends on the start, or if they can get another dry lap in.
I think that Mercs lack of aero rake is causing them to struggle when they follow other cars. In clean air they are fine. This might turn out to be a big issue this year if Mercedes cannot stay out ahead.

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The more down force a car has the more they have too loose, the faster cars will suffer most - it's a simple as that
Agreed but Seb followed Hamilton closely for quite a few laps with no apparent issue to his tyres. My understanding is that a higher raked floor that is sealed well with provide a greater percentage of the car's aero and that grip from the diffuser is less sensitive than grip from a wing.

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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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Daniel Ricciardo............the new Mark Webber when it comes to luck in Aus' :lol:

I really enjoyed the race, Bottas' pace was quite impressive but when he was catching late in the race, then held the gap to Lewis, anyone reckon he got some team orders ? ? ?

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Unc1eM0nty
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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JonoNic wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:02 am
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
JonoNic wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:22 am

I think that Mercs lack of aero rake is causing them to struggle when they follow other cars. In clean air they are fine. This might turn out to be a big issue this year if Mercedes cannot stay out ahead.

Sent from my SM-A700F using Tapatalk
The more down force a car has the more they have too loose, the faster cars will suffer most - it's a simple as that
Agreed but Seb followed Hamilton closely for quite a few laps with no apparent issue to his tyres. My understanding is that a higher raked floor that is sealed well with provide a greater percentage of the car's aero and that grip from the diffuser is less sensitive than grip from a wing.

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We need to see this on a track where its possible to overtake, can't wait :)

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Phil
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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It doesnt compute that Ferrari had the faster car. IMO Hamilton didnt have the confidence in the car. He was on edge, complaining a lot to the team about tire state and grip, despite being on rather good pace (evident by the gap they pulled out to Bottas and Kimi). This leads me to believe Hamilton/Mercedes were rather concerned about Vettel sitting closely behind, closing the gap at will.

At the end of it, they were probably rather equal on pace, slight edge going to Seb/Ferrari. It could have also been a bit of a bluff. All cars would have needed to drive to delta and save fuel due to 10% more throttle etc. Sure, you need the pace first to get you there, which Vettel clearly had, but i dont believe he had much more in hand. Then they did something awesome: he started to push, close the gap giving the impression they were about to pit. A masterstroke.

Hamilton/Mercedes pitted, either to cover him off or get the undercut. Eitherway, they pitted themselve 3s behind VES and Seb stayed out long enough to jump both. The rest is history and not representative anymore ti draw any conclusions. Hamiltons stint was compromised and Vettel had a comfortable margin and easy win.

The lasting impression i got from all this, is that Hamilton lacked that confidence in the car he usually has.

Still awesome start into the season. I am much looking forward to a closer battle for the WDC among drivers of different teams, rather than a race between team mates. If Seb and Ham remain the front runners of their team, we will see a battle in which the teams rally behind their driver and battle for the win. Its been too long since we have had this.
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Restomaniac
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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Phil wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:23 am
It doesnt compute that Ferrari had the faster car. IMO Hamilton didnt have the confidence in the car. He was on edge, complaining a lot to the team about tire state and grip, despite being on rather good pace (evident by the gap they pulled out to Bottas and Kimi). This leads me to believe Hamilton/Mercedes were rather concerned about Vettel sitting closely behind, closing the gap at will.

At the end of it, they were probably rather equal on pace, slight edge going to Seb/Ferrari. It could have also been a bit of a bluff. All cars would have needed to drive to delta and save fuel due to 10% more throttle etc. Sure, you need the pace first to get you there, which Vettel clearly had, but i dont believe he had much more in hand. Then they did something awesome: he started to push, close the gap giving the impression they were about to pit. A masterstroke.

Hamilton/Mercedes pitted, either to cover him off or get the undercut. Eitherway, they pitted themselve 3s behind VES and Seb stayed out long enough to jump both. The rest is history and not representative anymore ti draw any conclusions. Hamiltons stint was compromised and Vettel had a comfortable margin and easy win.

The lasting impression i got from all this, is that Hamilton lacked that confidence in the car he usually has.

Still awesome start into the season. I am much looking forward to a closer battle for the WDC among drivers of different teams, rather than a race between team mates. If Seb and Ham remain the front runners of their team, we will see a battle in which the teams rally behind their driver and battle for the win. Its been too long since we have had this.
And that is strange because during Quali watching the 2 onboards Ham seemed to look like he was super quick whilst just out for a Sunday drive with no dramas.
Where that car/driver Combo went I have no idea.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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JonoNic wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:02 am
grip from the diffuser is less sensitive than grip from a wing.
The other way around, mate... W08 is very complex and aero performance depends a lot on front wing performance, SF70H seems less reliant on it (by design "simplicity" and by how today's race unfolded). And after front wing we move to barge board area where Ferrari is also less complex than W08...
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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JonoNic
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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Vanja #66 wrote:
JonoNic wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:02 am
grip from the diffuser is less sensitive than grip from a wing.
The other way around, mate... W08 is very complex and aero performance depends a lot on front wing performance, SF70H seems less reliant on it (by design "simplicity" and by how today's race unfolded). And after front wing we move to barge board area where Ferrari is also less complex than W08...
OK. So my understanding of the aero is lacking but there is a more negative effect on the Mercedes when following cars. Right?

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX Fri 24 – Sun 26 Mar 2017

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I believe so, yes. It's nothing new, it's the same as previous years... It was the same with Red Bull in 2010-2013. And I think Ferrari have been developing race-friendly-aero-concept cars for years...
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
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