2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by foxmulder_ms » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:26 am

Easy Hamilton win. He will not repeat Bahrain qualy error.

Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by Vasconia » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:46 am

dans79 wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:50 am
Vasconia wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:18 am
Qualy will be essential as usual and Ferrari needs to close the gap we saw in Bahrein.
I think the quali gap will remain the same, but I think Merc might pull ahead in race trim pace. Over the last 2 days they have done 240 laps worth of running in what is arguably the hottest most abrasive conditions they will face all season. From what I have seen/read it looks like they focused almost exclusively on trying to improve long run pace and tire degradation, while not compromising short and single lap pace.
You compromise always your qualy pace if you focus on race pace but its easier to do when you have an agressive PU map like Mercedes has. Ferrari needs to achieve a similar map if they really want to beat Mercedes.

Chene_Mostert
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by Chene_Mostert » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:46 am

Vasconia wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:46 am
dans79 wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:50 am
Vasconia wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:18 am
Qualy will be essential as usual and Ferrari needs to close the gap we saw in Bahrein.

I think the quali gap will remain the same, but I think Merc might pull ahead in race trim pace. Over the last 2 days they have done 240 laps worth of running in what is arguably the hottest most abrasive conditions they will face all season. From what I have seen/read it looks like they focused almost exclusively on trying to improve long run pace and tire degradation, while not compromising short and single lap pace.
You compromise always your qualy pace if you focus on race pace but its easier to do when you have an agressive PU map like Mercedes has. Ferrari needs to achieve a similar map if they really want to beat Mercedes.
But Ferrari beat them 66.667% of the time sofar this season without a similar "map"
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake

Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by Vasconia » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:51 am

Chene_Mostert wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:46 am

But Ferrari beat them 66.667% of the time sofar this season without a similar "map"
I know, but if they start every single race in the first row its only a matter of time that Mercedes will begin to win races, if Hamilton leads the pack it will be very hard to beat him unless Ferrari has clearly a better race pace.

giantfan10
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by giantfan10 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:41 pm

dans79 wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:50 am
Vasconia wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:18 am
Qualy will be essential as usual and Ferrari needs to close the gap we saw in Bahrein.
I think the quali gap will remain the same, but I think Merc might pull ahead in race trim pace. Over the last 2 days they have done 240 laps worth of running in what is arguably the hottest most abrasive conditions they will face all season. From what I have seen/read it looks like they focused almost exclusively on trying to improve long run pace and tire degradation, while not compromising short and single lap pace.
And they ran the most laps in preseason testing and what good did that do them?
whats going to be if Ferrari wins in Sochi?
Last edited by turbof1 on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed instigating parts

Santozini
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by Santozini » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:51 pm

Vasconia wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:51 am
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:46 am

But Ferrari beat them 66.667% of the time sofar this season without a similar "map"
I know, but if they start every single race in the first row its only a matter of time that Mercedes will begin to win races, if Hamilton leads the pack it will be very hard to beat him unless Ferrari has clearly a better race pace.
Like in Australia :)

Phil
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by Phil » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:05 pm

giantfan10 wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:41 pm
dans79 wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:50 am
Vasconia wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:18 am
Qualy will be essential as usual and Ferrari needs to close the gap we saw in Bahrein.
I think the quali gap will remain the same, but I think Merc might pull ahead in race trim pace. Over the last 2 days they have done 240 laps worth of running in what is arguably the hottest most abrasive conditions they will face all season. From what I have seen/read it looks like they focused almost exclusively on trying to improve long run pace and tire degradation, while not compromising short and single lap pace.
And they ran the most laps in preseason testing and what good did that do them? Some of you are really grasping at straws to convince everybody else how great mercedes is in 2016.
whats going to be the excuse if Ferrari wins in Sochi?
It has brought them arguably the quickest car in qualifying and a car that is arguably as quick as the Ferrari in race trim. If the problems Hamilton alluded to that they had during pre-season testing (e.g. genuinely feeling that Ferrari were quicker at that point), the large amount of data they did gather meant that they were able to solve some of the problems, know where to focus resources, make the right choices and show up in Melbourne with a very competitive car.

Again, doing many laps is not a guarantee for performance, but I trust Mercedes has the resources to know what helps them get on top of things and are not committed to running around doing senseless laps. They know the problems they have - they arguably have the most [aerodynamically] complex car on the grid, so gathering more data will help them understand it better.

I'm with dans79 here. It's no guarantee, but I do expect Mercedes to become stronger in race trim too. Will it be enough to win race after race? That depends; if it's effectively two Mercedes drivers battling and trading points with Vettel alone, they might still get tangled up in less than optimal strategy calls. Last season, the gap was too big to cause them problems, but this year, the tiniest tactical or strategic calls could end up giving the lead to Ferrari.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by Vasconia » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:42 pm

Santozini wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:51 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:51 am
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:46 am

But Ferrari beat them 66.667% of the time sofar this season without a similar "map"
I know, but if they start every single race in the first row its only a matter of time that Mercedes will begin to win races, if Hamilton leads the pack it will be very hard to beat him unless Ferrari has clearly a better race pace.
Like in Australia :)
Australia is considered an exception. Ferrari has a great race pace but not clearly the best one as they showed in Australia.

I am curious to see what happens in Barcelona-Canada with the biggest updates to come and if Mercedes has some hidden potential in its engine as some suspect. If Ferrari is able to challenge Mercedes in those races they could definitely fight for the championship.

GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by GPR-A duplicate2 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:16 pm

Ferrari already introduced a new Front wing and floor modifications, but that didn't made a great deal of difference, atleast in Qualifying where in fact, the gap grew.

I wish the race in sochi is straight forward for Hamilton and Vettel to simply settle the picture. This is not a track that punishes the tires and hence, even if Mercedes hasn't made great inroads (considering it would be just one week to the race from Bahrain test), they should still be in good stead for Russia. Whatever setup improvements they could do from the learnings of Bahrain test, should help the race pace.

This report says Red Bull is going to bring a heavily revised chassis to Barcelona. I hope it is not like the 70% new car type of upgrade that Ferrari had brought in 2015. We need Red Bull to challenge Mercedes as the season progress as Ferrari usually go backwards.
Last edited by turbof1 on Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed instigating parts

Chene_Mostert
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by Chene_Mostert » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:23 pm

GPR-A wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:16 pm
I must say, I get absolutely amazed with the loyal Ferrari fans for the never ending optimism and belief that somehow Ferrari is ahead of Mercedes (every year as the season starts)! Ferrari already introduced a new Front wing and floor modifications, but that didn't made a great deal of difference, atleast in Qualifying where in fact, the gap grew.

I wish the race in sochi is straight forward for Hamilton and Vettel to simply settle the picture. This is not a track that punishes the tires and hence, even if Mercedes hasn't made great inroads (considering it would be just one week to the race from Bahrain test), they should still be in good stead for Russia. Whatever setup improvements they could do from the learnings of Bahrain test, should help the race pace.

This report says Red Bull is going to bring a heavily revised chassis to Barcelona. I hope it is not like the 70% new car type of upgrade that Ferrari had brought in 2015. We need Red Bull to challenge Mercedes as the season progress as Ferrari usually go backwards.
There will never be a straight forward race.
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake

GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by GPR-A duplicate2 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:27 pm

Chene_Mostert wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:23 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:16 pm
I must say, I get absolutely amazed with the loyal Ferrari fans for the never ending optimism and belief that somehow Ferrari is ahead of Mercedes (every year as the season starts)! Ferrari already introduced a new Front wing and floor modifications, but that didn't made a great deal of difference, atleast in Qualifying where in fact, the gap grew.

I wish the race in sochi is straight forward for Hamilton and Vettel to simply settle the picture. This is not a track that punishes the tires and hence, even if Mercedes hasn't made great inroads (considering it would be just one week to the race from Bahrain test), they should still be in good stead for Russia. Whatever setup improvements they could do from the learnings of Bahrain test, should help the race pace.

This report says Red Bull is going to bring a heavily revised chassis to Barcelona. I hope it is not like the 70% new car type of upgrade that Ferrari had brought in 2015. We need Red Bull to challenge Mercedes as the season progress as Ferrari usually go backwards.
There will never be a straight forward race.
That is exactly what has happened in the last 3 years and Ferrari dominated!

ripper
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by ripper » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:11 pm

I am a Ferrari supporter, but I think too that as soon as Mercedes understands better Pirelli tyres it will be harder for Ferrari to close the gap in race. Probably it will be smaller than qualy gap, where Mercs have clearly an edge, but not enough to be a constant threat.

I would really like that the Scuderia was able to out-develop Mercedes (or at least develop in the same way) during the season, but recent seasons tells a different history. Yeah, it could be different this year, I really hope... but until I won't see it I won't believe it.

giantfan10
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by giantfan10 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:26 pm

Ferrari brought updates to Bahrain and won the race... of course mercedes fans want to talk about what could have or should have happened and which car has more aero bits and a better engine and anything but the only thing that matters...Race wins,
lets see what happens in sochi,,, Bahrain was supposed to be a mercedes track due to their mega engine...didnt work out ... Sochi is supposed to be a mercedes track due to their mega engine and the fact that they have figured out their tire woes after testing for 2 days.... lets see what happens come race day.
my position is that i have no clue what car will be ahead in Sochi....
Mercedes fans would have us all believe that Mercedes is head and shoulders better than Ferrari when the facts on track show otherwise.... the defense of this point of view is whats so amusing to me.
2014-2016 is over, Mercedes can no longer easily cruise to 30 second victories

Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by Manoah2u » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:24 pm

Vettel Win, Verstappen 2nd, Kimi 3rd, Hamilton DNF, Dannyric 4th, Bottas 5th
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

BanMeToo
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by BanMeToo » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:44 pm

I mean I think the biggest / most realistic fear is that Ferrari will be out-developed by Merc and RB over the season. I just want to see a proper title fight. We'll see what happens! 8) :D