2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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evered7
evered7
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Would have preferred a 1-2 or even a 1-3 but 2-3 it was. Vettel extends his championship lead and Ferrari have a fast car in qualifying and race now. Some of the positives from the race.

Don't think there was any passing at all in the race so even if Vettel had a few more laps, I don't think it would have mattered. Spain should be interesting. RB coming up with the upgrades, Merc and Ferrari resuming their battle.

Happy that Kimi finally came to play, hope it continues all season long.

Xwang
Xwang
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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SR71 wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 12:55 am
Xwang wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:23 pm
I think it would be better to forbid carbon brakes and use steel (or ceramic) ones to lengthen the braking zone.
I keep hearing this myth repeated.

From what I understand F1 stopping power is mostly drag. Changing brake materials will have little impact and engineers will quickly solve the slight drop in performance anyways.
If carbon brakes hadn't given advantages, teams wouldn't have used them.
Moreover if carbon brakes had given only slight increase in performance, it would have been silly to continue to spend so much in this area.
Drag is not F1 stopping power (see Verstappen incident with a brake failure in Bahrain).
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Bottas was on fire in that opening stint, it's safe to say he's a genuine title contender. Hamilton? This is the worst start to a season I can remember from him performance wise, very average so far from him. If the performance of the cars stays this equal then Vettel will walk it I feel.

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henry
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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SR71 wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 12:55 am
Xwang wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:23 pm
I think it would be better to forbid carbon brakes and use steel (or ceramic) ones to lengthen the braking zone.
I keep hearing this myth repeated.

From what I understand F1 stopping power is mostly drag. Changing brake materials will have little impact and engineers will quickly solve the slight drop in performance anyways.
Your understanding is misshapen. In stops from high speed aerodynamic drag accounts for maybe 20 to 25% of the retardation initially, dropping to a much lower proportion as the tyre contact force tends towards the vehicle weight at low speeds.

For instance at Spa the stop for Les Combes, 330kph to 130kph, takes about 1.25 seconds using an average power of about 2000Kw. The maximum value for all drag is the engine power, say 675 Kw.


The numbers are extrapolated from Brembo's brake card for 2015. Unfortunately they no longer publish them so I can't link. They give a peak power of 2500Kw which would make the aero contribution about 21% at the beginning of the stop.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Fulcrum
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Wass85 wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 8:47 am
Bottas was on fire in that opening stint, it's safe to say he's a genuine title contender. Hamilton? This is the worst start to a season I can remember from him performance wise, very average so far from him. If the performance of the cars stays this equal then Vettel will walk it I feel.
Hamilton's points through the first 4 Grand Prix, assuming the current points structure. I've bolded the Championship years, and this year.

2007 - 69
2008 - 50
2009 - 26
2010 - 49
2011 - 59
2012 - 49
2013 - 50
2014 - 75
2015 - 93
2016 - 57
2017 - 73

Hamilton has had a very good start to the year, even by his own extremely high standards, as measured by points.

Were he to replicate this throughout the season, he'd end up with 380-385 points, which, considering the increased competition, would give him a great chance of securing a 4th Championship.

zibby43
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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dans79 wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 2:32 am
giantfan10 wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:11 am
There is exactly one damaged turbocharger which was on Kimis car... according to Ferrari the turbos they changed out other than the one that kimi damaged was planned and can be reused and upgraded in the next upgrade cycle.. much ado about nothing....or is it a Mercedes fan grasping at straws? : )
Parts can't be upgraded, I don't know why people think they can be, they can only be replaced or reused. Additionally, you only get 4 total for the entire season.
Absolutely 100% correct.

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Fulcrum wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 9:10 am
Wass85 wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 8:47 am
Bottas was on fire in that opening stint, it's safe to say he's a genuine title contender. Hamilton? This is the worst start to a season I can remember from him performance wise, very average so far from him. If the performance of the cars stays this equal then Vettel will walk it I feel.
Hamilton's points through the first 4 Grand Prix, assuming the current points structure. I've bolded the Championship years, and this year.

2007 - 69
2008 - 50
2009 - 26
2010 - 49
2011 - 59
2012 - 49
2013 - 50
2014 - 75
2015 - 93
2016 - 57
2017 - 73

Hamilton has had a very good start to the year, even by his own extremely high standards, as measured by points.

Were he to replicate this throughout the season, he'd end up with 380-385 points, which, considering the increased competition, would give him a great chance of securing a 4th Championship.
Stats show nothing of driver performance, he's been very average so far this season and needs to up his game big time.

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Andres125sx
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Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Xwang wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 8:15 am
SR71 wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 12:55 am
Xwang wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:23 pm
I think it would be better to forbid carbon brakes and use steel (or ceramic) ones to lengthen the braking zone.
I keep hearing this myth repeated.

From what I understand F1 stopping power is mostly drag. Changing brake materials will have little impact and engineers will quickly solve the slight drop in performance anyways.
If carbon brakes hadn't given advantages, teams wouldn't have used them.
Moreover if carbon brakes had given only slight increase in performance, it would have been silly to continue to spend so much in this area.
Drag is not F1 stopping power (see Verstappen incident with a brake failure in Bahrain).
I made this same mistake some time ago, assuming carbon brakes reduce the braking distances, but someone did explain me carbon brakes only reduce the weight, significantly, but that´s their only/main advantage. They dont reduce braking distance significantly, and he told me HRT was using steel brakes because of costs and they didn´t have to brake 50m earlier as I was thinking, far from that.

What makes F1 cars to brake so fast is grip, wich is that high because of downforce. The only way to lenghten braking distances would be reducing downforce

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:00 am

Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Wass85 wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 9:16 am
Fulcrum wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 9:10 am
Wass85 wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 8:47 am
Bottas was on fire in that opening stint, it's safe to say he's a genuine title contender. Hamilton? This is the worst start to a season I can remember from him performance wise, very average so far from him. If the performance of the cars stays this equal then Vettel will walk it I feel.
Hamilton's points through the first 4 Grand Prix, assuming the current points structure. I've bolded the Championship years, and this year.

2007 - 69
2008 - 50
2009 - 26
2010 - 49
2011 - 59
2012 - 49
2013 - 50
2014 - 75
2015 - 93
2016 - 57
2017 - 73

Hamilton has had a very good start to the year, even by his own extremely high standards, as measured by points.

Were he to replicate this throughout the season, he'd end up with 380-385 points, which, considering the increased competition, would give him a great chance of securing a 4th Championship.
Stats show nothing of driver performance, he's been very average so far this season and needs to up his game big time.
I like trolls and their ability to jump randomly from one state to another within an argument, belying every bit of a fact, ignoring context and most importantly, genuinely beleiving in their own imaginery world, regardless of how mediocre it seems from outside.

For all those who wish and love to see Lewis in bad shape performance wise, just to encourage you a bit, next up is his bogey circuit. A Circuit that he neither likes nor the luck has ever favored him. So, I expect to see more such trolls having a field day at Spanish GP thread.

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ME4ME
179
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Wass85 wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 9:16 am
Bottas was on fire in that opening stint, it's safe to say he's a genuine title contender. Hamilton? This is the worst start to a season I can remember from him performance wise, very average so far from him. If the performance of the cars stays this equal then Vettel will walk it I feel.
Wass85 wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 8:47 am
Stats show nothing of driver performance, he's been very average so far this season and needs to up his game big time.
Australia: Hamilton had a pretty flawless weekend. Beat Bottas
China: Hamilton had again a solid weekend. Bottas was nowhere after he spun behind the safety car.
Bahrain: Hamilton had a mediocre weekend losing a position at the start and getting a penalty. Still, much better than Bottas.
Russia: Hamilton is off the pace all weekend and has a bad weekend.

People are always quick to change their opinion after the latest race. But hold on a sec and think about how you felt last race. Bottas was nowhere and was written off as a championship contender.

Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Andres125sx wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 10:49 am
Xwang wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 8:15 am
SR71 wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 12:55 am


I keep hearing this myth repeated.

From what I understand F1 stopping power is mostly drag. Changing brake materials will have little impact and engineers will quickly solve the slight drop in performance anyways.

If carbon brakes hadn't given advantages, teams wouldn't have used them.
Moreover if carbon brakes had given only slight increase in performance, it would have been silly to continue to spend so much in this area.
Drag is not F1 stopping power (see Verstappen incident with a brake failure in Bahrain).
I made this same mistake some time ago, assuming carbon brakes reduce the braking distances, but someone did explain me carbon brakes only reduce the weight, significantly, but that´s their only/main advantage. They dont reduce braking distance significantly, and he told me HRT was using steel brakes because of costs and they didn´t have to brake 50m earlier as I was thinking, far from that.

What makes F1 cars to brake so fast is grip, wich is that high because of downforce. The only way to lenghten braking distances would be reducing downforce
Carbon-carbon brakes should have higher friction coefficient and should cope better with wear.
In any case if they only reduce weight then get rid of them and save money, then reduce the front downforce of cars and you will have less problems following a car and longer braking zones to overtake which according to me is better than drs.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

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iotar__
7
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:31 am

Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Wass85 wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 9:16 am
Stats show nothing of driver performance, he's been very average so far this season and needs to up his game big time.
Same driver, similar level of performance. The difference is: competition on similar or quicker level (Ferrari) that creates various circumstances, in both directions like China, and makes comparisons to previous seasons pointless. Plus 4 races sample.

Normal if you're not into walk on water theories, labelling drivers, one race worth praises and similar one race worth bashing, that's what F1 pseudo journalism and crowd opinions are.

I'm happy to report that Hamilton had another "good initial getaway" (Coulthard). Scripted lines for every occasion #-o .

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:00 am

Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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iotar__ wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 11:26 am
Same driver, similar level of performance. The difference is: competition on similar or quicker level (Ferrari) that creates various circumstances,
I always wished for things to be this way in the last 3 years. I would have liked to see how many cars could have got in between those 3 tenths (at some places it was half a second) space that existed between Lewis and Nico in qualifying. You are right, it is irrelevant now.

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dren
289
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:14 pm

Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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This race was pretty exciting for two corners. Congrats to Bottas. Let's hope we have better racing in the future.
Honda!

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TAG
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:18 pm
Location: in a good place

Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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One day when Dongshan and a monk were washing their bowls by the river, they saw two crows fighting over the carcass of a frog. The monk asked, “Why does it always come to this?” Dongshan replied, “It’s only for your benefit, honored one.”
We've got competition this year guys, enjoy. In any case, gift horse yesterday, Mercedes leaves Sochi with the WCC lead.
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