2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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basti313
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Sonador wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 11:07 am
Towards the guys who call Hamilton average: "WTF?"
Ohhh...pooor boy...

By the way...who said this? Have not read anything like this here and maybe missed a 10 page shitstorm.

There is a general rule here: Ham, Vet, Alo are god and drive each race the best race of their life. Every other comment does not end good for the thread :mrgreen:

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turbof1
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Sonador wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 11:07 am
I am really surprised with Bottas this past GP, what a comeback after the GP in Bahrain.

Hopefully he wil continue the upwards trend, and make a good battle with the Ferrari's and Hamilton.
Towards the guys who call Hamilton average: "WTF?"

I dont get it ....

What did he ever do to you, to get that sort of (imo) BS critisism?

#-o
Well, calling it "average" is indeed quite blunt and unexplanatory. However, it holds some truth in that this was not his best performance, despite the 'issues' with the car (issues which Mercedes knew in advance but choose to continue on anyway to avoid sacrificing aero effficiency). All weekend long he was struggling with the car.

But that also implies he usually does much better.

Also, I do not see a lot of talk about Hulkenberg. The guy managed to do 40 laps on the ultra softs and indeed keep good pace up to that point. Some love for Hulkenberg, people.
#AeroFrodo

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Sieper
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Hulk is great!

let me ask, if ultrasofts (that have already been used in Q2 for 7? (or 5?) laps) can hold up 40 laps in a 53 laps race (sure this is a non-aggressive type of asphalt) has something then gone wrong with developing these? You must always do 1 stop, you must change compound but if it wasn't for these rules maybe the whole lot wouldn't even have pitted at all, would certainly not have switched to SS's (bus US again). last year US we're gone after what 7-12 laps or so? Aren't the tires too wear resistant this year? I like races where you can do 2 versus 3 (or even 4) pitstops and then heavily use your tires (when pitting 3-4 times as opposed to 2 times) much more strategy involved and much more spectacle imho.
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Sonador
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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basti313 wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 1:48 pm
Sonador wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 11:07 am
Towards the guys who call Hamilton average: "WTF?"
Ohhh...pooor boy...

By the way...who said this? Have not read anything like this here and maybe missed a 10 page shitstorm.

There is a general rule here: Ham, Vet, Alo are god and drive each race the best race of their life. Every other comment does not end good for the thread :mrgreen:
:lol:

No i am not a Hamilton fanboy, i watch F1 with a neutral mind.

I just dont get why people are so harsh on him, ok sometimes he says and does silly things.

He had one average weekend this year, and some people jump to the conclusion he is average this year.
That i dont get. But maybe i could have expressed it in a more civilised way than i did.

Given that Bottas had a horrible weekend in Bahrain, could they have one dodgy chassis?
Ant that the chassis circle around?
The differance in perormance of Bottas in Bahrain, and the performance of Hamilton in Russia.
They're must be something wrong with a chassis, or a floor. The last sector of Hamilton was schocking comparred to Bottas.

#-o

@Turbo i agree with you, Hulkenberg seems to realy like the new cars an tires.
He is beginning to look as the "old" Hulkenberg again, with very good qualiying skills and solid races.
How he manged to do such a long stint o the Ultras is beyond me.
Maybe Perez teached him a thing or two about tiremanagment? :o

basti313
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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turbof1 wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 2:25 pm
Also, I do not see a lot of talk about Hulkenberg. The guy managed to do 40 laps on the ultra softs and indeed keep good pace up to that point. Some love for Hulkenberg, people.
Not much to say...he has the burden of a bad car and an even worse teammate. So really hard to compare.
But he got the biggest credit you can get from the Bulls. Marco said when commenting on the small gap in Q to Renault, that the works team is not running a better engine, but the driver makes the difference on one lap. Quite a hard one for Ric and Ver...
Sieper wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 2:35 pm
let me ask, if ultrasofts (that have already been used in Q2 for 7? (or 5?) laps) can hold up 40 laps in a 53 laps race (sure this is a non-aggressive type of asphalt) has something then gone wrong with developing these?
Do you remember the WDC final 2010? We are back at exactely that state, where it sometimes does not play a role for the performance when to change the tires. It is all about track position. Pirelli did the same like Bridgestone...just play save, make wooden tires that do not explode or fall apart.

basti313
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Sonador wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 3:04 pm
I just dont get why people are so harsh on him
Again, who is harsh? Maybe you read too much into average statements...
Sonador wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 3:04 pm
ok sometimes he says and does silly things.
Maybe this affects other people more than you? The same for Alo's arrogance or Vet's radio...some like it, some do not.
Sonador wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 3:04 pm
He had one average weekend this year, and some people jump to the conclusion he is average this year.
That i dont get.
We simply do not have a good comparison so far. No idea how to judge Bot performance. I think not many here expected him to be a match at all, so the "jump" to the idea of Ham being to on his max is rather short.
Sonador wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 3:04 pm
Given that Bottas had a horrible weekend in Bahrain, could they have one dodgy chassis?
Ant that the chassis circle around?
Sure. Once Toto and Niki have sorted their fight about who is allowed to win the WDC this year we will see a permanent allocation of this chassis. :D =D>

CLKGTR
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Which nine drivers waited their first win longer than Bottas?
https://maxf1.net/en/which-nine-drivers ... an-bottas/
Image

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nevill3
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Toto has gone on record stating that the car this year is a little temperamental and sensitive to poor setup changes/choices. Couple that with the tyres needing a certain operating temperature window to give 100% performance means that we can probably expect a few more "average" weekends from either Mercedes driver this year.

Ferrari appear have a much more compliant chassis and a wider operating window so marginal setup choices will not hold them back quite as much.

I have also read that Hamilton had a problem with his floor on Saturday that required fixing for the race, if Hamilton had set up his car, taking into account whatever effect his floor problem had manifested, a fixed floor could have thrown off his race setup just enough for the car to perform the way it did on the Sunday. Fighting at the front leaves very little room for errors and little glitches like this could determine the overall outcome of the championship this year.

Bottas had the same setup issues at the last race, Hamilton this time, probably due to the team optimizing things to improve their slight tyre issue from the last race with information that was gained in the Bahrain tests. More analysis of the data should allow them to mitigate future problems but we will have to wait and see.

Ferrari need to keep the pressure on now they have a slight advantage and hope that Mercedes does not get on top of it's sensitivity issues too soon. If they can maintain their development pace then they have every chance of winning the grand prize this year.

The first four races are over and the stage is now set for what will hopefully be a season to remember.

My only wish is for Redbull to join the fight and also to see McLaren overcome their difficulties and make a charge to the front to spoil everyone elses party, but that is wishful thinking :pray:
Last edited by nevill3 on Wed May 03, 2017 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sonador
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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basti313 wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 3:34 pm
Sonador wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 3:04 pm
I just dont get why people are so harsh on him
Again, who is harsh? Maybe you read too much into average statements...
Sonador wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 3:04 pm
ok sometimes he says and does silly things.
Maybe this affects other people more than you? The same for Alo's arrogance or Vet's radio...some like it, some do not.
Sonador wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 3:04 pm
He had one average weekend this year, and some people jump to the conclusion he is average this year.
That i dont get.
We simply do not have a good comparison so far. No idea how to judge Bot performance. I think not many here expected him to be a match at all, so the "jump" to the idea of Ham being to on his max is rather short.
Sonador wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 3:04 pm
Given that Bottas had a horrible weekend in Bahrain, could they have one dodgy chassis?
Ant that the chassis circle around?
Sure. Once Toto and Niki have sorted their fight about who is allowed to win the WDC this year we will see a permanent allocation of this chassis. :D =D>
:mrgreen:
about Toto vs Niki, i am a visiual kind of guy and can easily envisage that happening.

My reaction was a reaction to wass85 a couple of days ago, that Hamilton had been average this season.
I had doubts to post something about it, so maybe that was my mistake to wait to long, or post anything about it.

Ok, so maybe not a dodgy chassis, just a very narrow setup window, wich is ofcourse more likely.
So i think the Spanish GP wil be interesting come Sunday who has the better setup.

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Sieper wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 2:35 pm
Hulk is great!

let me ask, if ultrasofts (that have already been used in Q2 for 7? (or 5?) laps) can hold up 40 laps in a 53 laps race (sure this is a non-aggressive type of asphalt) has something then gone wrong with developing these? You must always do 1 stop, you must change compound but if it wasn't for these rules maybe the whole lot wouldn't even have pitted at all, would certainly not have switched to SS's (bus US again). last year US we're gone after what 7-12 laps or so? Aren't the tires too wear resistant this year? I like races where you can do 2 versus 3 (or even 4) pitstops and then heavily use your tires (when pitting 3-4 times as opposed to 2 times) much more strategy involved and much more spectacle imho.
Hulk/Renault ran a sub-optimal strategy, had they stopped him earlier he could have been ahead of Ocon and possibly challenged Perez.

Yes we would like more than 1 stop per race but Pirelli just don't know how to design a cliff into the tires. Also the pit penalty in Sochi is quite high and tire wear/deg quite low.
Last edited by ENGINE TUNER on Wed May 03, 2017 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

evered7
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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That is some level of spinning. Still I think Ferrari would know if their driver isn't giving a 100% on the car, as evident from the comments they make during the race as to where he can find time.

Didn't know Hamilton was furiously pedaling inside the Mercedes to make it match the Ferrari. Oh! that poor soul.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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turbof1 wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 2:25 pm


Also, I do not see a lot of talk about Hulkenberg. The guy managed to do 40 laps on the ultra softs and indeed keep good pace up to that point. Some love for Hulkenberg, people.
I Little Hulk fan here. He is making a great season so far. Having great qualis and being super solid on Sundays. He seems to be very motivated in Renault, because he is the leader of an improving Project. Nice to see the best Hulk back! =D>

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turbof1
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Vasconia wrote:
Thu May 04, 2017 9:53 am
turbof1 wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 2:25 pm


Also, I do not see a lot of talk about Hulkenberg. The guy managed to do 40 laps on the ultra softs and indeed keep good pace up to that point. Some love for Hulkenberg, people.
I Little Hulk fan here. He is making a great season so far. Having great qualis and being super solid on Sundays. He seems to be very motivated in Renault, because he is the leader of an improving Project. Nice to see the best Hulk back! =D>
I always felt the guy is a true talent and actually very good driver. It has to be taken in account he is very tall and for that has to carry a weight disadvantage around, easily costing him several tenths of a second on a lap. Yet he seems to compensate for that with better driving.
#AeroFrodo

Mandrake
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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According to AMuS, both Ferraris had temperature issues in the first stint as well which had them drop way behind the car in front. The 2 seconds of turbulent air from recent seasons is now a lot more apparently (also evident in the overtaking issues). So Ferrari not being able to follow Bottas was not a sign of inferior performance but temperature problems.

Wass85
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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I might get hate for this but in my honest opinion Hamilton has been very average so far this season.

Bottas is brand new to the team and has been very close in every qualifying session and is leading Hamilton in overall speed in qualifying.

Bottas finished on Hamilton's gearbox in Melbourne and I have a feeling he was told to hold station, that's why he was so miserable in his interviews.